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Am I the only Telechart user disappointed in TC2000 v12? Rate this Topic:
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fpetry
Posted : Sunday, July 24, 2011 8:12:01 AM
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Joined: 12/2/2004
Posts: 1,767
The new version of TC2000 continues to disappointment me greatly.  I just checked out version 12 and it's still missing what is to me a very, very major function, logarithmic grid line percentages.  Six months I think the new whiz bang Telechart has been out and this function is still not there, what gives?  Most all of my easy scans in 2007 include a grid line percentage pcf for a particular zoom setting, thus none of them work  in the new version.   After six months or so I am not encouraged.
diceman
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 9:57:02 AM
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Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 5,602
Haven’t tried V12 yet. (afraid it will screw up what I did in v11  )
I really don’t understand why this wasn’t finished and complete.

It would be nice if there was at least a list of what’s expected in the final product.

The problem with missing features is you don’t know if they’re on the “to do” list
or considered unimportant.

You don’t know if V12 is 62% finished or 99.9%.



Thanks
diceman


 

traa
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 11:04:51 AM
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Posts: 20
the lack of customized data export to csv/excel/text in 11 or 12  puts it at about 50% complete. my fear is they think they're done and shut down 2007.

After 17 years with TC (I started in 1994), that would be a disaster.
StockGuy
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 11:13:13 AM

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We're not going to shut down TeleChart 2007.  We will continue to support it.

william4567
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 11:35:47 AM
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Joined: 11/22/2006
Posts: 100

I  find the whole TC2000 thing a bit anticlimactic. Too much Buzz and hype for a work in progress. The roll out of Blocks/Stockfinder was a bigger/better deal. 

Freas
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 12:32:34 PM
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 22
QUOTE (fpetry)
The new version of TC2000 continues to disappointment me greatly.  I just checked out version 12 and it's still missing what is to me a very, very major function, logarithmic grid line percentages.  Six months I think the new whiz bang Telechart has been out and this function is still not there, what gives?  Most all of my easy scans in 2007 include a grid line percentage pcf for a particular zoom setting, thus none of them work  in the new version.   After six months or so I am not encouraged.


Did yoy get the PCF at a Philladelphia Telecharts user group meeting?
jas0501
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 2:13:55 PM
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Joined: 12/31/2005
Posts: 2,498
Third time is the charm...
--------------------------------------------------------

This is a consistent problem with Worden's approach.

StockFinder's backscanner had bugs, and missing features that got lip service only.

Not knowing when of if, and that is a big IF, bugs will be fixed and features will be addressed is not the way to run a business.

The beta feedback mechanism being "email only" is another example of the short sighted approach. User feedback should be an open dialogue, permitting the user community the oppotunity to comment further and to appreciate the issues.

fpetry
Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 7:00:19 PM
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Joined: 12/2/2004
Posts: 1,767
QUOTE (Freas)
QUOTE (fpetry)
The new version of TC2000 continues to disappointment me greatly.  I just checked out version 12 and it's still missing what is to me a very, very major function, logarithmic grid line percentages.  Six months I think the new whiz bang Telechart has been out and this function is still not there, what gives?  Most all of my easy scans in 2007 include a grid line percentage pcf for a particular zoom setting, thus none of them work  in the new version.   After six months or so I am not encouraged.


Did yoy get the PCF at a Philladelphia Telecharts user group meeting?


Got the great pcf from Worden trainer/moderator Bruce L.   Must be signed in to view the link as it was posted on the Worden forum for members only:  http://forums.worden.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13568

You can adjust the pcfs easily to percentage or zoom of your choice with the great template pcfs presented in the thread by Bruce L. 
wais
Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:34:04 AM
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 36
I haven't forgiven Worden for Blocks! I never got a refund for this total disaster. I would have thought they would have learned from this mistake, selling a product that didn't work. But, here we are with ver 12 that doesn't work, doesn't have the tutorial vids promised, and, I was never notified of the introductory webinar. Why??? 
StockGuy
Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:56:53 AM

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Wais,

What is not working for you in version 12?

The tutorial videos are posted at http://videos.worden.com/tc2000v12tutorials/mainmenu.html and the link will be added back to the Help menu on the next update to the program.

We post all upcoming webinars on the home page at www.Worden.com.  

We do not email everyone everytime we do a webinar.

Putt4Dough
Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:49:45 PM

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Posts: 433

QUOTE (StockGuy)
The tutorial videos are posted at http://videos.worden.com/tc2000v12tutorials/mainmenu.html and the link will be added back to the Help menu on the next update to the program.

StockGuy, thanks for the link! (I kept checking the Help menu and since I didn't see it there I assumed Michael was slacking off.)

Putt4Dough
Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:06:06 PM

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Posts: 433

QUOTE (StockGuy)
We do not email everyone everytime we do a webinar.

Just my 2 cents...

Instead of an email blast (most folks get too much email as it is) a tweet about an upcoming webinar might not be a bad idea.

That way, folks that are interested can subscribe to the Twitter feed. Those that aren't, won't. And since I don't see any third-party advertising on the Worden home page, I'm assuming driving traffic there is not the primary concern.
StockGuy
Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:24:15 PM

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We usually post them on Twitter as well, although I see this week's hasn't been "tweeted".  But we always post them on our home page.
Putt4Dough
Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:34:04 PM

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QUOTE (StockGuy)
We usually post them on Twitter as well, although I see this week's hasn't been "tweeted".

Cool. I hadn't noticed any webinar tweets, but maybe I missed them.
(Probably a sign I need to prune the list of people I'm following on Twitter.)

Ryoko
Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:27:23 PM
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Joined: 1/19/2011
Posts: 23
I guess I'll chime in....Been using TeleCharts on and off for a few years (back on again) and I'm currently using TC2000 v.12. To tell you the truth...I love it. Sure v.11 and v.12 aren't complete. Yeah, it looks like they took the free tools from FreeStockCharts.com and re-packaged it in a very expensive wrapper. Yes, they haven't ported over all TC-2007 functions. I'd say "they have ported over the functions yet", but I don't know if they will or if they'll decided to take a different path with v.12 ... a path that leads farther away from the old TC-2007 structure.Give them some time. TC2000 v.12 and future iterations may end up being all of what TC-2007 was and more...or it might fail like a cat with cheese on its head. I'm sure all at Worden are aware of the risks involved when you completely change software analogue on your user base.If it fails, continue to use TC-2007. That version has quite a large user base. I'm sure they'll keep it going forever really.I like what I see in TC2000 v.12 especially in the user interface. Workspaces are excellent.Do I use all the "new" technical indicators they've added that weren't in TC-2007? No, I'm just a price guy. Point & Figure, Heiken-Ashi, Kagi, Renko...that's what I use.Anyway...I like version 12 way more than version 11 or TC-2007. Cheers.=^.^=
Ryoko
Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:28:17 PM
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Posts: 23
Damn...that last reply came out as one paragraph...with no way to edit it. Bummer.
Putt4Dough
Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:06:37 PM

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QUOTE (Ryoko)
...I'm just a price guy. Point & Figure, Heiken-Ashi, Kagi, Renko...that's what I use.

Renko? Sweet!! 

 
QUOTE (Ryoko)
Damn...that last reply came out as one paragraph...with no way to edit it. Bummer.

Yeah, unlike some other forums I visit which allow editing (at least for a certain amount of time) you're kinda SOL on this one once you hit "Post".

I usually get around that by using the "Preview" button, except, that is ... when I'm over-caffeinated.

Which reminds me ... time for a coffee run.



Ryoko
Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:38:28 PM
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Joined: 1/19/2011
Posts: 23
Btw...TC2000 v.12 was updated tonight (Build 12.0.4225.19215 - 7/27/2011). Quite a bit updated or fixed.
DavMcKin
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:10:42 AM
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Posts: 30
I also continue to get further and further DISAPPOINTED as they bring out these new, fancy, whiz bang versions.  I also continue to use TC2007's fixed logarithmic (i.e. 5%, 10%, 15%) grid lines to scroll through charts looking for stocks that are really moving up (or down) versus those that are only slightly moving up/down.  With V11 & V12 - you CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE!!!!  I spoke to one of the support team and they PROMISED that ALL OF THE LEGACY FEATURES WOULD BE MIGRATED - B.S., B.S, B.S.!!!!  Also, the User Interface continues to become less and less user friendly - you have to start watching all these videos and reading instructions on how to perform the same things you had been doing for years (I've been a user for well over 15 years).  Another not so simple thing to do is change the background color of the watchlist screens, etc.  Another feature NOT PRESENT in V11/12 is the ability to only look at stocks that YOU (not Worden) entered (you now only have the choice of looking at ones that have BOTH (Worden's and your notes).  Lastly, another BIG DISAPPOINTMENT is that YOU MUST BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET TO USE V11/12!!!!  I travel alot and use TC2007 to look at charts while on the plane (i.e. WHERE I DON'T HAVE INTERNET CONNECTIVITY).  It's extremely unfortunate that they are taking the company in this direction - I personally would fire the product development manager on the spot!!!!
Putt4Dough
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:37:26 AM

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Posts: 433

Sounds like you already talked to support, but if you haven't already I would also send all your suggestions to feedback@tc2000.com where they can be noted, prioritized and (hopefully) addressed. I don't use logarithmic gridlines myself, but if enough people want them, they'll move up their "honey do" list.

I never used the 2007 version, but I've got a different beef with v12 (going from RealCode to PCFs is like going from a penthouse to an outhouse).

I'm continuing to use StockFinder for my trading, while keeping one eye on TC2000 v12 to see where it's heading. I'm keeping my other eye on stuff like TradeStation's EasyLanguage and other tools that let me program my own indicators. 

The standard indicator library is fine, as far as it goes, but I'm guessing folks like Bollinger, Wilder, and DeMark didn't create their indicators cause they were sitting around bored. I'm guessing they looked around at the tools available at the time, and thought they could do better. 

So far, TC2000 is like an original Ford Model T ... you can have any indicator you want, as long as it's in their library.
DavMcKin
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:29:40 PM
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Posts: 30

Yes - I've talked to support, and I've sent over a couple of dozen suggestions in.  None of them have been implemented yet.  From what I've seen so far - the implementation of any customer feedback has been on the backburner or something.  They've taken a user friendly platform and mutilated it beyond recognition.  They even took the V11 platform and completely mutilated it when they went to V12!!!  This type of mutilation just makes it extremely difficult to keep having to relearn every time they come out with a new version.

Up through TC2007, I've been able to program the PCFs and had gotten used to them.  Although I've gotten used to them, they are somewhat difficult to use.  In the new V12 - I have no clue as to how to program them anymore (haven't had hours to sit down and re-learn this user UNFRIENDLY environment).

I myself will be looking into other programs - especially if they quit supporting the TC2007 - I would drop Telechart (I'm subscribed to both the Stocks and the Mutual Funds) immediately at that point.  The only thing that I'm not sure in the other ones (stockfinder, tradestation, etc.) are the fundamentals such as earnings and sales growth, but, I've developed other strategies to find the stronger companies (such as Investors Business Daily).  As soon as I have time, if things continue on this path of destruction, I will be looking into the others though.  Hopefully, you can use them without having to be connected to the internet!!!!

 

Big_Sky_Walker
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:43:42 PM
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FYI....v12 is not fully "cloud based".  You need Siverlight installed on the computer you are using to run the program.  Last weekend I was using a public computer at a Sheraton Hotel and the TC kept asking me to install Siverlight.  Obviously you can't download and install programs on most public computers so there was no access to TC2000 while on my stay.  Revereted to my Android phone and TC2000 Mobile which was OK for basic info.  Worden confirmed you need Siverlight installed on a computer to access the program. ?????????????
StockGuy
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:17:46 PM

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QUOTE (Big_Sky_Walker)
FYI....v12 is not fully "cloud based".  You need Siverlight installed on the computer you are using to run the program.  Last weekend I was using a public computer at a Sheraton Hotel and the TC kept asking me to install Siverlight.  Obviously you can't download and install programs on most public computers so there was no access to TC2000 while on my stay.  Revereted to my Android phone and TC2000 Mobile which was OK for basic info.  Worden confirmed you need Siverlight installed on a computer to access the program. ?????????????


You only need the Silverlight plug-in to run TC2000 in the browser, the same way you need Flash to view certain web pages.
Putt4Dough
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:26:05 PM

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QUOTE (StockGuy)
You only need the Silverlight plug-in to run TC2000 in the browser, the same way you need Flash to view certain web pages.

I was wondering about that - thanks for the clarification.

So far, I've only tried TC2000 on my own computers at home and at the office, but what if I'm out in an internet cafe, or hotel, or wherever, and try to run TC2000 in a browser that doesn't have the Silverlight plug-in installed?

Won't I have the same issue? (i.e., not being able to install programs/plug-ins) on public computers?

Like I said, not a problem for me personally ... just wondering.
DavMcKin
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:58:49 PM
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Posts: 30
I see someone else had a similar issue that I did.  The exception that I had was that I was not able to connect to the internet in any way shape or form (like on an airplane).  Up through Version TC2007, I've been able to update the stocks prior to my departure, then, go through the stocks without having to have access to the internet.  This is an EXTREMELY BIG PROBLEM WITH THE NEW VERSIONS (V11 & 12)!!!!   There will continue to be these situations where I don't have access to the internet - it MUST operate like the prior versions in order to be useful!!!!!  They don't seem to consider these situations any more though - they seem to be too worried about sharing things on Facebook and Twitter.
Putt4Dough
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 5:45:34 PM

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Interesting - I've heard a lot of feedback from folks (myself included) who love not having to worry about updating the data anymore. But I guess that sucks when you're cut off from the internet. Since I don't fly that often, it's not a deal-breaker for me.

But don't get me started about PCFs...



DavMcKin
Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:00:46 PM
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Posts: 30
I agree that it is nice to not have to download when starting the program, but, couldn't they figure out a way for it to automatically sync the data when connected to the internet, but, still have it download to the computer so that it can be used when not on the internet.  Also, since the data is "real time" when connected to the internet - how often do the PCFs criteria update?  Daily?  If Daily, when - at end of day?
Putt4Dough
Posted : Monday, August 22, 2011 7:54:27 AM

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Interesting ... United just announced upgrades including Wi-Fi access on more than 200 Boeing 737 & 757 planes.

The pilots must be TC2000 users.

1marcus4
Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 5:23:48 AM
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If anyone is still interested in the original intent of this post, I have to say that I am ALSO very disappointed in this TC 2012 upgrade.  I sat down finally to play with it and within the first hour found 5 structural changes to the application which will have a profound effect on how I use the program.  I have come to rely on particular features heavily on a daily basis.  They're simply gone!

It's as if the designer of TC 2012 never really used TC 2007 in heavy production out in the field.  Sure, there are new bells and whistles, but there are efficiences that were just thrown out the window.
jas0501
Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 11:16:17 AM
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Joined: 12/31/2005
Posts: 2,498
QUOTE (1marcus4)
If anyone is still interested in the original intent of this post, I have to say that I am ALSO very disappointed in this TC 2012 upgrade.  I sat down finally to play with it and within the first hour found 5 structural changes to the application which will have a profound effect on how I use the program.  I have come to rely on particular features heavily on a daily basis.  They're simply gone!

It's as if the designer of TC 2012 never really used TC 2007 in heavy production out in the field.  Sure, there are new bells and whistles, but there are efficiences that were just thrown out the window.


It might be productive to list the 5 things you find wanting....

---------------------------------------------------------
Product "improvements" requested by managment or added as enhancments by developers can often be prompted by:
  o "vocal" user requests - in some cases misguided
  o  attempts at performance improvements
  o perceived "improvements" without appreciating the current utility
  o programmer "tree marking", just trying to make a mark by changing something, again without appreciating the loss of current utility
  o trying to match the latest "user interface standard", similar to the Windows 2007 menubar overhaul that was inflicted on users, with loss of keystroke shortcut efficiencies that users had relied on for years.
  o marketing motivated, by the need to announce "new and improved", when improvement in that area was not needed
  o misguided ideas about what features users use
  o dumb decisions
  o designers, programmers and management not appreciating what impact the new fangled feature will have in the user community. In some cases not even considering the current users. This can happen when clever users take advantage of system "behavior", but in managment speak not a "feature". This behavior can be lost via a performance improvment. A hypothetical example, 2 column sorts in a row preserve the ordering of the first sort, after the second sort. Clever users take advantage of the "feature/behavior". A programmer decides to improve the sort performance by 50% and changes the sort algorithm, which results in a loss of the first sort's ordering. 
  o sometimes more users appreciate the change and a minority suffers, sometimes the majority. 

Software development can be difficult and user feedback and discussion hopefully can fix the problem or explain the decision. This is not Worden's approach as explanations are seldom given, however listing the shortcomings can't hurt...


Putt4Dough
Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 11:21:47 AM

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Joined: 7/30/2007
Posts: 433

QUOTE (jas0501)
It might be productive to list the 5 things you find wanting....

Agreed.

I know folks have been using the forums for a long time, and I have to believe they are monitored, but in addition to posting here don't forget to email TC2000 suggestions & critiques to feedback@tc2000.com.

Vote early & often.

fpetry
Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:37:22 AM
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Joined: 12/2/2004
Posts: 1,767
Anyone else disappointed with the lack of ITEM COUNT in the Easy Scan list for TC2000?  With 2007 I can quickly glance at my couple dozen Easy Scans and know which ones to not bother clicking  as they'll have a zero.  If certain ones show a sudden drop or increase in the number count, that gives me a quick feel for certain market conditions important to me.

What about lack of ZOOM settings?   Zoom settings are important because I along with others I'm sure have zoom PCFs as Easy Scan conditions, and of course they don't work with TC2000.

BTW, all complaints I've made about TC2000 have been emailed to the feedback email address numerous times past few months.  I encourage all to do the same.
Putt4Dough
Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:44:53 AM

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QUOTE (fpetry)
BTW, all complaints I've made about TC2000 have been emailed to the feedback email 
address numerous times past few months.  I encourage all to do the same.

Amen. Keep those cards & letters coming, folks: feedback@tc2000.com.

bbruin
Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 11:03:08 AM
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Joined: 6/7/2009
Posts: 136

Here are 2 features that I believe Worden should add/modify in order for it to get into the big leagues.

1. Premarket charting - premarket trading is pretty common these days so I don't understand why it's not available.  Even if you don't want to trade the premarket, it's still good to see the activity especially if the stock has had significant action. Many times a stock will stall at premarket resistance but how would you know to anticipate that if you can't see it on the chart?   Post market would be nice also of course.

2. True real time alerts - this is the one that kills me.  How can you day or short swing trade effectively if when you set a price or trend line alert, the alert is up to 2 minutes late because they batch alerts and send them out all at once.  I can only conclude that there are not many day traders using the service.

I could add a third but my guess is that there are not enough Canadian customers to warrant it - but real time data for Canadian stocks - again, the 15 minute delay doesn't cut it you are day or swing trading.

I have written Worden many times for these ones - "we have added your feature request to the queue"

Ryoko
Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:26:56 PM
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Joined: 1/19/2011
Posts: 23
QUOTE (bbruin)

Here are 2 features that I believe Worden should add/modify in order for it to get into the big leagues.

1. Premarket charting - premarket trading is pretty common these days so I don't understand why it's not available.  Even if you don't want to trade the premarket, it's still good to see the activity especially if the stock has had significant action. Many times a stock will stall at premarket resistance but how would you know to anticipate that if you can't see it on the chart?   Post market would be nice also of course.

2. True real time alerts - this is the one that kills me.  How can you day or short swing trade effectively if when you set a price or trend line alert, the alert is up to 2 minutes late because they batch alerts and send them out all at once.  I can only conclude that there are not many day traders using the service.



Both of these are excellent suggestions. I totally agree.
Freas
Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:35:51 PM
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 22

This is for all those who have submitted to the three forum topics;

    --“Am I the only Telechart user disappointed in TC2000 v12”

    --“Number on bottom right of charts”

    -- http://forums.worden.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13568

 

This is an excerpt from a lengthy presentation I gave some time ago to a Telechart user group.

 

Telechart, like most charting, starts with a chart window that displays price history with the maximum and minimum price values at the top and bottom respectively for the selected time frame and then adds grid lines with price values at those lines – look at a chart.

 

TC2007 sets the number of price value grid lines at 11 using 12 even spaces to draw the chart.

 

TC2000 v12 allows the number of grid lines (as well as margins at the top and bottom of the chart) to be selected. To make the same chart view as found in TC2007 set the number of grid lines to 13 and set the margins to zero (0).

 

Set up the following PCF in TC2007 and indicator in TC2000 v12 and name it “Gradient”;

 

(10 EXP(.0833 * LOG(MAXH147 / MINL147 ) ) - 1) * 100

 

 Make sure the PCF is updated to the current date, the charts in both TC2007 and TC2000 v12 are set to display seven month daily charts in the log scaling mode and the gradient PCF/indicator is set up as a column in a S&P 500 watch list and sort the watch list using the gradient PCT/Indicator. (Seven months corresponds to 147 bars or Zoom = 4 in TC2007)

 

Note the following:

1.      The scale values are the same in TC2007 and TC2000 except TC2000 has added values displayed at the top and bottom of the chart.

2.     The value displayed in the gradient column in both TC2007 and TC2000 v12 is within +/- 0.03 of the red line spacing number shown at the bottom right corner of the TC2007 chart (in most cases).  I have no idea what the line spacing number indicates in the TC2000 v12 chart and hope that it will be fixed in the promised scaling revisions.

 

The gradient PCF/indicator can be used for the purposes stated in some of the comments in the forum topics indicated above providing volatility selection technique. Listing in a watch list is also very helpful.

 

Changing the number 147 to any other number, e.g. 21 for a month, can provide gradient scaling for a different time frame, however, you should check it out before you depend on it.

 

Gradient was a vehicle used to illustrate, to a Telechart User Group, concepts of “Know what you are looking at”, “Common charting method and display” and the value of being able to “Normalize Charts”.

 

I hope you find this both helpful and informative and help encourage you to think for yourself as Don Worden would say.

 

Finally, follow the tutorial videos and Webinars provided for TC2000 v12, I personally think it is the most excellent version of Telecharts ever, even with the minor problems still to be fixed.

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