Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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im always browsing and recently found out that there are over 200 indicators currently available to traders.. not including chart overlays and different chart types such as sma, ema, vwma, vsa, renko, kagi, and so on...
out of curiosity, what do you use?
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Registered User
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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I use all 200 simultateously, and if you add in the 53 I created by myself that leaves me with 253 indictors. I have never had them all align and give me a buy signal. In fact, I'm not sure what a buy signal is. :)
All joking aside I use 2.5
Price
Volume
Price Channels (this is almost like using price so I only gave it a .5)
David John Hall
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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Fortunately I've solved the problem by creating my own.
Its funny. Im reading some old stuff from technical
analysis of stock and commodities. In the mid-1980's
it seems like there was almost an obsession with the
measurement of dominant cycles.
(if there is a dominant cycle in data you can tune to it and
actually create leading indicators, when the cycle is large
a trend is in place)
Today I hear almost nothing about it. Davidjohnhall showed
a website where you could put in your trade statistics
and generate equity plots.
You would think with today's technology. There would be a
web site where you could put in a ticker and it would calculate
the dominate cycle and tell you how strong it is.
Its also funny that you see nothing about candles. They say that
rice traders used them for hundreds of years but stock traders
weren't using them not too many years ago.
Also there was much more talk of folks like Gann, Livermore,
Wyckoff.
Today its seems like folks are just interested in selling their bells and whistles.
It seems like our information overload has created weakness.
For the record for me price and volume are a given for indicators.
Certain variations I don't really consider indicators.
(Renko, Kagi) Just different ways to look at price.
I also find it somewhat amusing that the simple moving average is an indicator.
(really more of a math concept then anything to do with a stock)
Lately more of my time has been spent finding better stocks and opening
my mind to cheap stocks.
(if it don't move it don't matter what indictor you use)
Thanks
diceman
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Registered User
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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Funny you mention the back issues, Diceman -- I was thinking about buying one of Stocks and Commodities back volumes -- something from the late 80's or early 90's. Sounds like it would be interesting.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/31/2005
Posts: 2,499
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There are 2 possible answers based on the intent of the question:
Question I:
When looking at a chart what indicators do you use?
Question II.
When backtesting what indicators do you use?
Looking at a chart many visual aspects are immediately obvious. No need to plot a linear regression line to determine the recent trend. However when doing a backtest looking at the slope of a linear regression line is a very easy way to "appreciate" recent performance.
Seeing a dragon pattern and backtesting for dragon patterns are to very different things.
Question II's answer:
Thing that "correlate" to profit when backtesting to consider:
price, RSI, ADX, Stoc, normalized ATR etc. Pick you poison.
Then...
1. Temporal considerations of the above as in
a. differences between, as in (RSI13 - RSI8) or (ATR13 - ATR8)/C
b. slopes of the above,
c. crossovers up or down
2. Persistence of the above as in
a. stdev, i.e bollinger bands
b. channels
c. duration counts
3. candle stick patterns
4. Market condierations using the above indicators, 1 & 2 against
a. market indexes
b industry or sub-industry
5. Standard indexs & custom indexes
a. advance decline
b. 52-week highs52-week lows
c. custom index counts as in doji counts for example
Backtesting to measure the strategies potential, and then using the stratgey to present potential canidate trades, and eyeballing the charts, one can argue the price and volume are all that is needed. The answer to question I.
However, getting to that point is a different matter and many of the 200 may be tried to assemble the set you want on your pallette for backtesting. Many hours of backtesting will eventually educate you as to what works often enough and eventually you will see the chart that would meet the backtest pallette requirements without having them on the chart.
All this getting back to the flip answer of Price and Volume and experience.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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Well, I feel like a wimp because of all my crutches; but in the interest of learning for us all, here goes: I use BB20,20 on price, LR30 on price, TSV26 Simple, BB13,10 on TSV26 simple, Volume and a 6ma on volume. I use those on a, roughly, 180 day time frame.
On a longer time frame, I use 5ma, 20 ma and 50ma, all simple.
I also draw a lot of trendlines and occasionally measure fibonacci numbers.
So, as embarassing as it is, yes, I use all of those. I realize that real men only use price and volume, but really, guys, I'm trying.
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Registered User
Joined: 7/17/2009
Posts: 42
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Price , volume and fibs only.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 267
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Price and volume for me, combined with options to give me more time to be right.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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QUOTE (diceman)
Fortunately I've solved the problem by creating my own.
Its funny. Im reading some old stuff from technical
analysis of stock and commodities. In the mid-1980's
it seems like there was almost an obsession with the
measurement of dominant cycles.
(if there is a dominant cycle in data you can tune to it and
actually create leading indicators, when the cycle is large
a trend is in place)
Today I hear almost nothing about it. Davidjohnhall showed
a website where you could put in your trade statistics
and generate equity plots.
You would think with today's technology. There would be a
web site where you could put in a ticker and it would calculate
the dominate cycle and tell you how strong it is.
Its also funny that you see nothing about candles. They say that
rice traders used them for hundreds of years but stock traders
weren't using them not too many years ago.
Also there was much more talk of folks like Gann, Livermore,
Wyckoff.
Today its seems like folks are just interested in selling their bells and whistles.
It seems like our information overload has created weakness.
For the record for me price and volume are a given for indicators.
Certain variations I don't really consider indicators.
(Renko, Kagi) Just different ways to look at price.
I also find it somewhat amusing that the simple moving average is an indicator.
(really more of a math concept then anything to do with a stock)
Lately more of my time has been spent finding better stocks and opening
my mind to cheap stocks.
(if it don't move it don't matter what indictor you use)
Thanks
diceman
its interesting what you said about how some things have been used by rice traders etc but we've only been using them for a few years... i always think of this too because on professional platforms, a lot of them still dont have or just started offering candlesticks.. the furthest some of them have gone were ohlc bars
one reason why i also decided to start this thread is because i've also noticed on the majority of professional platforms, there are typically only 10-20 indicators/overlays in total. when i first started as an institutional trader years ago, i wondered always wondered why but then the answer is simple - most indicators created now are channel based while the majority being offered on the platform are trend based, channels dont usually occur as often or as long as a trend which can be hours, days, or weeks
even when i look at it today.. i trade using 3 indicators for support (1 indicator per trade type) and the majority of my trades go off with the aid of trend and rarely with channel
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Registered User
Joined: 7/7/2009
Posts: 15
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I use modified versions of MACD, ATR, and ADX. Typically, the only information on volume I use is to determine whether an equity is liquid enough for me to trade. The only volume study I've seen that is very helpful is market profile and depth-of-market for traders with very short time frames (for scalpers and day traders) and requires Level II market data. Anything else about volume is highly subjective, IMO.
Price and volume are not indicators. I state that as I would the fact that the letter "Y" is not a sentence nor is the number "3" a function. They gain further meaning in combination.
Some believe that price and volume is all you need, but they've studied these pattrns of lettres lnog enuogh to be albe to decihper the maening of tihs sentnece withuot a prolbem. Tihs may tkae yeras of prcatcie to accomlpish and is sitll sujbectvie.
I will do you a favor and tell you to save your time and avoid Gann Lines, Gann Arcs, Fibonnaci Arcs, and anything that relies on Sesame Street geometry lessons and is subject to scaling. It's a complete waste of time. Kudos to anyone who uses these methods and has remained profitable.
You mention Renko and Kagi. I wouldn't claim them as indicators. They are different methods of charting just as line, bar, and candlestick charts differ. I often refer to Point & Figure charts. If you're trying to understand price action then the information in P&F charts can not be duplicated by any other method of charting that includes time. You don't need a protractor or special drawing tools to discover trend direction or support and resistance levels that may have spanned months or years. P&F charting is truly a lost art. The only drawback I have with TC and SF for stock trading is that it does not have true P&F charting capabilities.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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QUOTE (rlschapman) I use modified versions of MACD, ATR, and ADX. Typically, the only information on volume I use is to determine whether an equity is liquid enough for me to trade. The only volume study I've seen that is very helpful is market profile and depth-of-market for traders with very short time frames (for scalpers and day traders) and requires Level II market data. Anything else about volume is highly subjective, IMO.
Price and volume are not indicators. I state that as I would the fact that the letter "Y" is not a sentence nor is the number "3" a function. They gain further meaning in combination.
Some believe that price and volume is all you need, but they've studied these pattrns of lettres lnog enuogh to be albe to decihper the maening of tihs sentnece withuot a prolbem. Tihs may tkae yeras of prcatcie to accomlpish and is sitll sujbectvie.
I will do you a favor and tell you to save your time and avoid Gann Lines, Gann Arcs, Fibonnaci Arcs, and anything that relies on Sesame Street geometry lessons and is subject to scaling. It's a complete waste of time. Kudos to anyone who uses these methods and has remained profitable.
You mention Renko and Kagi. I wouldn't claim them as indicators. They are different methods of charting just as line, bar, and candlestick charts differ. I often refer to Point & Figure charts. If you're trying to understand price action then the information in P&F charts can not be duplicated by any other method of charting that includes time. You don't need a protractor or special drawing tools to discover trend direction or support and resistance levels that may have spanned months or years. P&F charting is truly a lost art. The only drawback I have with TC and SF for stock trading is that it does not have true P&F charting capabilities.
lol you and i are very much alike!
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Registered User
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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real men only use price and volume
Tobydad, you have me laughing out loud at my desk! I am going to get a T-shirt of this made -- I promise you!
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Registered User
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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Some believe that price and volume is all you need, but they've studied these pattrns of lettres lnog enuogh to be albe to decihper the maening of tihs sentnece withuot a prolbem.
True story...I'm sitting at home looking at charts and my girlfriend's son (he's 9) sits next to me on the sofa (he's already said i should get the world record for studying charts the longest) and the dialog goes like this:
Eric: What are you doing?
Me: Looking at charts.
Eric: What's that ontop?
Me: That's the price the stock is currently trading at and the price it was trading at.
Eric: What's that on bottom?
Me: That's the volume which shows how much this stock has been bought or sold on those days.
There's a pause while he looks at the chart (which only has price and volume on it), then back at me, and says (in his usual brash way):
Eric: You know what you need to do, right? (The vocal inflection was "Duuurrrrr")
Me: (laughing) No, what?
Eric: It's so obvious. Right? You shouldn't ever buy here when it's going up (price was actually going parabolic) because that's when everyone is already at the party and they are filling all the places in the market area. You need to look at it here (price was going down/flat) when everyone is leaving the party, but you don't want to join them there because the party is empty) but you want to buy here (breakout) when everyone starts coming back to the party. Hello!
Then he left.
And I cracked up a lot as he pretty much nailed my way of trading in 2 minutes. I'm not sure where he got the idea that the stock market is a party -- but I guess it can be!
I guess he doesn't want me looking at charts too much and would rather get me out swimming so he gave me the secret.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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I always wonder how folks talk about indicators without considering
the stocks you buy.
If Im using a dual moving average cross and a stock goes from
$10 to $15 dollars. Folks say the MAV's worked.
If I buy a stock at $10 and it goes to $10.14 and you get
whipsawed all over the place. They say the MAV's failed.
Well did the MAVs fail or did the stock fail?
Im not sure I want to compare an MAV cross on AAPL with a
junk penny stock.
Its funny because the same folks who don't like indicators
tend to not like fundamentals.
(as far as I can tell)
Thanks
diceman
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Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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QUOTE (davidjohnhall) Some believe that price and volume is all you need, but they've studied these pattrns of lettres lnog enuogh to be albe to decihper the maening of tihs sentnece withuot a prolbem.
True story...I'm sitting at home looking at charts and my girlfriend's son (he's 9) sits next to me on the sofa (he's already said i should get the world record for studying charts the longest) and the dialog goes like this:
Eric: What are you doing?
Me: Looking at charts.
Eric: What's that ontop?
Me: That's the price the stock is currently trading at and the price it was trading at.
Eric: What's that on bottom?
Me: That's the volume which shows how much this stock has been bought or sold on those days.
There's a pause while he looks at the chart (which only has price and volume on it), then back at me, and says (in his usual brash way):
Eric: You know what you need to do, right? (The vocal inflection was "Duuurrrrr")
Me: (laughing) No, what?
Eric: It's so obvious. Right? You shouldn't ever buy here when it's going up (price was actually going parabolic) because that's when everyone is already at the party and they are filling all the places in the market area. You need to look at it here (price was going down/flat) when everyone is leaving the party, but you don't want to join them there because the party is empty) but you want to buy here (breakout) when everyone starts coming back to the party. Hello!
Then he left.
And I cracked up a lot as he pretty much nailed my way of trading in 2 minutes. I'm not sure where he got the idea that the stock market is a party -- but I guess it can be!
I guess he doesn't want me looking at charts too much and would rather get me out swimming so he gave me the secret.
so easy kids can do it :D
whenever people ask me to trade, i always say well... make sure whenever you buy, its green and when you short its red... itll increase youre winning % by far
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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QUOTE (davidjohnhall) real men only use price and volume
Tobydad, you have me laughing out loud at my desk! I am going to get a T-shirt of this made -- I promise you!
You must take a pic and post it.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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Tobydad:
Next time we will make this easy on you and ask:
"What indicators don't you use?"
You may feel like a wimp but the wimps appear
to post better stock picks than the "real men".
(seems like the "real men" spend a lot of time getting banned)
------------------------------------------------------
davidjohnhall:
That's not that kid from the E-Trade commercial??
(by the way DJH that could be another shirt:
"Real Men get Banned!")
Thanks
diceman
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Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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