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S2		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 3:20:33 PM
Registered User Joined: 4/6/2005 Posts: 239		The data in TeleChart needs to be cleaned up. Of the 6943 symbols listed in All Stocks 167 (2.4%) do not have Industry Groups assigned to them. Of the same 6943 symbols 176 (2.5%) appear to have flat-lined. Some, such as AORGB went inactive in mid May. Some, such as CAFE are inactive due to SEC issues. Some, such as VRTS were bought out and are no longer valid. The bottom line is that more than 4% of the symbols are affecting the accuracy of the Industry Group rankings and sector rotation standings. One would think that an important part of the Worden’s Data Department’s duties would be to ensure that the data provided from the data vendor is clean and accurate for TeleChart subscribers. Below are the 176 symbols that are currently flat-lined: AACB, Alliance Atlantis Commun, LEISURE - General Entertainment ABPI, Accentia BioPharmaceuticals Inc, ABRXQ, Able Labs Inc, DRUGS - Drugs - Generic AED, Allied Domecq Plc, FOOD & BEVERAGE - Beverages - Wineries & Distilleries AEGN, Aerogen Inc, HEALTH SERVICES - Medical Appliances & Equipment AGNT, Argonaut Technologies, DRUGS - Diagnostic Substances AGRB, Agere Systems Inc B, ELECTRONICS - Semiconductor - Integrated Circuits AGRX, AlgoRx Pharmaceuticals, ALSM, Alphasmart Inc, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Information Technology Services AOLAQ, America Online Latin Am, INTERNET - Internet Information Providers AORGB, Allen Organ Co Cl B, CONSUMER DURABLES - Recreational Goods, Other ASBP, Asb Financial Corp, BANKING - Savings & Loans ASKJ, Ask Jeeves Inc, INTERNET - Internet Software & Services AVCSE, American Vantage Co, LEISURE - Resorts & Casinos BB, Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentari, BANKING - Foreign Regional Banks BCC, Boise Cascade Corp, BCII, Bone Care Internat Inc, DRUGS - Drug Manufacturers - Other BLMT, Belmont Bancorp, BANKING - Regional - Midwest Banks BLUE, Blue Martini Software, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Business Software & Services BRNC, Bronco Drilling Co Inc, BTIM, Biotime Inc, DRUGS - Biotechnology CACC, Credit Acceptance Corp, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Credit Services CAFE, Host America Corp, LEISURE - Restaurants CBNV, Community Bank Of Northern Va, BANKING - Regional - Mid-Atlantic Banks CCRD, Concord Commun Inc, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Processing Systems & Products CDEX, Celldex Therapeutics Inc, CGW, Cristalerias De Chile, CONSUMER NON-DURABLES - Packaging & Containers CKC, Collins & Aikman Corp, AUTOMOTIVE - Auto Parts CLAS, Classic Bancshares Inc, BANKING - Savings & Loans CLSR, Closure Medical Corp, HEALTH SERVICES - Medical Instruments & Supplies CLST, Cellstar Corp, WHOLESALE - Electronics Wholesale CLTK, Celeritek Inc, ELECTRONICS - Semiconductor - Integrated Circuits CMNT, Computer Network Tech, COMPUTER HARDWARE - Networking & Communication Dev CMTN, Copper Mountain Networks, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Communication Equipment CNM, Colonial Ny Insd Muni Fd, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Equity CO, Corrpro Companies, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Technical Services COLL, Collins Industries Inc, AUTOMOTIVE - Auto Parts COSN, Cosine Communications, COMPUTER HARDWARE - Diversified Computer Systems CPM, Capital Maritime & Trading Corp, CRDM, Cardima Inc, HEALTH SERVICES - Medical Appliances & Equipment CREO, Creo Inc, MANUFACTURING - Diversified Machinery CRXX, CombinatoRx Inc, CTMI, Cti Molecular Imaging Inc, HEALTH SERVICES - Medical Appliances & Equipment CVST, Covista Communications, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Telecom Services - Domestic CVW, Lehman Abs Corp Sr 2001-24, BANKING - Savings & Loans CW.B, Curtiss Wright Corp Cl B, CXSP, Chemgenex Pharmaceuticals Ltd, CZR, Caesars Entertainment Inc, LEISURE - Resorts & Casinos DAIEY, Daiei Inc Adr, RETAIL - Grocery Stores DCLK, Doubleclick Inc, MEDIA - Marketing Services DECT, Dectron Internationale, MATERIALS & CONSTRUCTION - General Contractors DIGL, Digital Lightwave Inc, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Communication Equipment DSTM, Datastream Systems Inc, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Technical & System Software DVID, Digital Video Systems Inc, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Communication Equipment EKT, Grupo Elektra S.a. De C.v., RETAIL - Electronics Stores ELAB, Eon Labs Inc, DRUGS - Drug Manufacturers - Other ENO, Enodis Plc Ads, MANUFACTURING - Diversified Machinery ENT, Equant Nv, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Information & Delivery Service ENV, Cet Services Inc, MATERIALS & CONSTRUCTION - Waste Management EPCT, EpiCept Corp, FAME, Flamemaster Corp, CHEMICALS - Specialty Chemicals FCAP, First Capital Inc, BANKING - Savings & Loans FFFD, North Central Bancshares, BANKING - Savings & Loans FFLC, Fflc Bancorp Inc, BANKING - Savings & Loans FLYR, Navigant International, TRANSPORTATION - Air Delivery & Freight Service FNFI, First Niles Financial, BANKING - Savings & Loans FSM, Foodarama Supermarkets, RETAIL - Grocery Stores GEXA, Gexa Corporation, UTILITIES - Diversified Utilities GJA, Synthetic Fxd Incm Sec Strats, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt GLK, Great Lakes Chemical Cp, CHEMICALS - Synthetics GML, Magic Lantern Group Inc, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Education & Training Services GOSHA, Oshkosh B'gosh Inc Cl A, CONSUMER NON-DURABLES - Textile - Apparel Clothing GOV, Gouverneur Bancorp Inc, BANKING - Savings & Loans GUPB, Gfsb Bancorp Inc, BANKING - Savings & Loans HUB.B, Hubbell Inc Class B, CONSUMER DURABLES - Home Furnishings & Fixtures IAAI, Insurance Auto Auctions, WHOLESALE - Auto Parts Wholesale ICOR, Icoria Inc, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Research Services IEIB, Internat Electronics, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Security & Protection Services IHS, IHS Inc, INDBN, Independent Capital Trust Iii, ITB, Gartner Group Cl B, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Business/Management Services JXSB, Jacksonville Bancorp Inc Il, BANKING - Savings & Loans KGT, Scudder Int Govt Trust, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt KNM, Konami Corp Ads, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Multimedia & Graphics Software KPP, Kaneb Pipeline L.P., ENERGY - Oil & Gas Pipelines KSL, Kaneb Services, ENERGY - Oil & Gas Pipelines LNV, Lincoln Natl Conv Sec, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt LSV, Sound Surgical Technologies Inc, MATV, Matav-Cable Sys Media, MEDIA - CATV Systems MAXF, Maxcor Financial Grp Inc, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Investment Brokerage - Regional MAYS, J.W. Mays Inc, REAL ESTATE - Property Management/Development MBP, Mid Penn Bancorp Inc, BANKING - Regional - Northeast Banks MCLD, Mcleodusa Inc Cl A, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Telecom Services - Domestic MELA, Electro-Optical Sciences Inc, MFBC, Mfb Corp, BANKING - Savings & Loans MHR, Magnum Hunter Resources, ENERGY - Oil & Gas Drilling & Exploration MLB, Mitchells & Butlers Plc Adr, LEISURE - Restaurants MLF, Merrill Lynch S&P500 Mit, MSSN, Mission Resources Corporation, ENERGY - Independent Oil & Gas MWH, Baycorp Holdings Ltd, UTILITIES - Electric Utilities NADXE, National Dentex Corp, HEALTH SERVICES - Medical Laboratories & Research NATK, North Amer Technologies, MANUFACTURING - Metal Fabrication NCRX, Neighborcare Inc, HEALTH SERVICES - Home Health Care NEPF, Northeast Penn Fincl Cp, BANKING - Savings & Loans NEWH, New Horizons Worldwide, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Education & Training Services NIDB, Northeast Indiana Bncp, BANKING - Savings & Loans NIKU, Niku Corporation, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Business Software & Services NOLD, Noland Co, WHOLESALE - Building Materials Wholesale NSDA, Nassda Corp, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Application Software NSEC, National Security Group, INSURANCE - Property & Casualty Insurance NTI, Northern Technology, CHEMICALS - Specialty Chemicals NURM, Nur Macroprinters Ltd, MANUFACTURING - Diversified Machinery NWFI, Northway Financial Inc, BANKING - Regional - Northeast Banks OMS, Oppenheimer Multi-Sector, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt ORPH, Orphan Medical Inc, DRUGS - Drug Manufacturers - Other PDLA, Presidential Realty Cl A, REAL ESTATE - REIT - Diversified/Industrial PECS, Pec Solutions Inc, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Business/Management Services PGE, Prime Group Realty Trust, REAL ESTATE - REIT - Office PGTV, Pegasus Commun Corp Cl A, MEDIA - CATV Systems PHYX, Physiometrix Inc, HEALTH SERVICES - Medical Appliances & Equipment PNN, Penn Engin & Mfg, MANUFACTURING - Small Tools & Accessories PNTE, Pointe Financial Corp, BANKING - Savings & Loans POG, Patina Oil & Gas, ENERGY - Independent Oil & Gas PRFS, Pennrock Financial Svcs, BANKING - Regional - Northeast Banks PROX, Proxim Corp Cl A, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Communication Equipment PRSF, Portal Software Inc, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Business Software & Services PTZ, Pulitzer Inc, MEDIA - Publishing - Periodicals/News PURW, Pure World Inc, DRUGS - Drug Related Products QUIP, Quipp Inc, MANUFACTURING - Diversified Machinery RAA, BlackRock California Investment Quality Municipal Trust, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt RCO, Ramp Corporation, DIVERSIFIED SERVICES - Business/Management Services RIGS, Riggs National Corp, BANKING - Regional - Mid-Atlantic Banks RIVR, River Valley Bancorp, BANKING - Savings & Loans RONC, Ronson Corp, CHEMICALS - Specialty Chemicals SBLK, Seabulk Intl, TRANSPORTATION - Shipping SC, Shell Transport &Trading, ENERGY - Major Integrated Oil & Gas SHIP, Golden Energy Marine Corp, SILI, Siliconix Inc, ELECTRONICS - Semiconductor - Integrated Circuits SIPX, Sipex Corporation, ELECTRONICS - Semiconductor - Integrated Circuits SMBC, Southern Missouri Bancp, BANKING - Savings & Loans SPR, Sterling Cap Cp, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt STW, Standard Commercial Cp, TOBACCO - Tobacco Products, Other STZ.B, Constellation Brands Inc Class B, SUMM, Summit Financial Corp, BANKING - Regional - Mid-Atlantic Banks SVBF, Svb Financial Services, BANKING - Regional - Northeast Banks SWHI, Sonomawest Holdings Inc, REAL ESTATE - Property Management/Development TFF, Tech Flavors & Fragrance, CHEMICALS - Specialty Chemicals TFN, Transnat'l Fncl Network, REAL ESTATE - Mortgage Investment TFSI, Three-Five Systems Inc, ELECTRONICS - Semiconductor - Integrated Circuits THN, Thermoretec Corp, MATERIALS & CONSTRUCTION - Waste Management TII, Thomas Industries Inc, CONSUMER DURABLES - Business Equipment TKTX, Transkaryotic Therapies, DRUGS - Biotechnology TLX, Trans Lux Corp, ELECTRONICS - Scientific & Technical Instruments TNMB, Thomas Nelson Inc Cl B, MEDIA - Publishing - Books TOY, Toys R Us Inc, SPECIALTY RETAIL - Toy & Hobby Stores TPPPF, Triple P N.V., COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Technical & System Software TRRA, Terra Networks S.A. Adr, INTERNET - Internet Information Providers TTN, Titan Corp, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Business Software & Services TZA, Tv Azteca Sa De Cv Ads, MEDIA - Broadcasting - TV TZG, Bear Stearns Dep Inc 7.125%, ENERGY - Oil & Gas Pipelines UCOMA, Unitedglobalcom Cl A, MEDIA - CATV Systems UDI, United Defense Indus, AEROSPACE/DEFENSE - Aerospace/Defense Major Dive USFC, Usf Corporation, TRANSPORTATION - Trucking VATA, Versata Incorporated, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Application Software VES, Vestaur Securities Fund, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt VIC, Van Kampen Mer Tr Ig Ca, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt VIT, Van Kampen Mer Cap Hit, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt VQC, Van Kampen Mer Ca Qu Mun, FINANCIAL SERVICES - Closed End Fund - Debt VRTS, Veritas Software Corp, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Application Software WCST, Wescast Ind Inc Cl A, AUTOMOTIVE - Auto Parts WDAT, Watchdata Technologies Inc ADR, WMC, Wmc Resources Ltd, METALS & MINING - Industrial Metals & Minerals WRO, Woronoco Bancorp Inc, BANKING - Savings & Loans WSO.B, Watsco Inc Cl B, WWCA, Western Wireless Corp A, TELECOMMUNICATIONS - Wireless Communications XEDA, Axeda Systems Inc, COMPUTER SOFTWARE & SERVICES - Business Software & Services
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Doug_H		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 5:00:19 PM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 4,308		Thanks for going to all the trouble of posting, s2. I will forward this to the data department for their review. While no data source is perfectly clean at any given point in time, we have won awards for having the cleanest data in the industry. The data department is constantly evaluating the data. They will certainly review what you've posted. - Doug Teaching Online!
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S2		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 6:42:41 PM
Registered User Joined: 4/6/2005 Posts: 239		Doug, I realize data of this type will never be pristeen what with the SEC temporarily stopping trading on some stocks, such as CAFE. However, if Yahoo can in very short order show that certain symbols are no longer valid; AGRB, MLF,ORPH and VRTS as examples. I would suspect Worden can also, and probably should. I would also expect that within 30-60 days of a stock begining to trade it would have and Industry Group associated with it. That some stocks have been trading for more than a year without and Industry Group assigned in TeleChart is really not acceptable. PS. Would you, if you can, correct the topic heading to read data rather than date. I only noticed it after I hit submit.
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Doug_H		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 8:21:47 PM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 4,308		I can't get in to where topic titles are changed, S2. I'll forward this on to someone who has that access. - Doug Teaching Online!
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Dangrqueen		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 8:48:20 PM
Registered User Joined: 6/3/2005 Posts: 1		Wow, as a newbie to TC2005, these posts are disconcerting. Telecharts has such a good reputation among seminar trainers.
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Doug_H		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 9:03:41 PM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 4,308		Don't lose sight of everything that is correct and up to the minute in TeleChart. We are known for having one of the cleanest data feeds in the industry. And we have a data department that reviews data issues daily and deals with our data vendors to keep up the good reputation we've built over the years. - Doug Teaching Online!
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StockGuy		Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2005 10:19:21 PM
Administration Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187		We'll have the data department check into the unclassified listings. I did notice several Class A and B stocks in there. STZ.B (Constellation Brands Cl B) for example. STZ (Constellation Brands Inc) is in the Food & Beverages group. It wouldn't make sense to have the same company counted twice in the industry. Several of the stocks in S2's list above are still trading...very lightly...but still trading. A few examples: FFFD, MATV, FSM Also, noticed a decent number of IPOs in there. One more thing, S2, the dead symbols will have no effect on the averages since they aren't trading.
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S2		Posted : Sunday, August 7, 2005 4:22:44 PM
Registered User Joined: 4/6/2005 Posts: 239		StockGuy, I did notice that some of the posted list of flat-lined stocks were reporting as trading single shares, wasn't sure if these were real trades or the inablity of the data vedor to provide zero if the stock was inactive. Yes there are several IPOs in the symbols without an industry assigned. I find it odd that this happpens. One example of an IPO last week is MWIV. Yahoo has the industry as Service and the sector as Medical Supplies Wholesale; MSN MoneyCentral shows the Industry as Medical Equipment Wholesale. It would seem that when a symbol is entered into the vendors system including the industry would be a requirement. My point is, that if these organizations, where stocks are not their main focus, can provide this information on a stock that is trading for 3 days why cannot Worden and it's data vendor, who's primary business is the stock market? Why does it take months, and in some cases years to get an industry assigned to a stock? As to the dead stocks not affecting the industry average. I'm not sure how the averages are being calculated. If it is a simple average with the number of stocks involved in the divisor it will have an impact on the accuracy of the results. AS to the inclusion of the multiple classes of a companies stock being included with an industry assignment. I can see logical reasons to include or exclude. It would seem they should have an industry assignment but maybe not be included in the industry average. If giving them an industry assignment automatically includes them in the average, so what, they are seperate tradable stocks? If this throws things out of whack then maybe there should be some other industry assignment for the class A & B stocks rather than leaving them without an industry designation.
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S2		Posted : Sunday, August 7, 2005 7:28:38 PM
Registered User Joined: 4/6/2005 Posts: 239		StockGuy, I have done some further investigation on the multi class stocks (a small handful of these exist). It appears that Worden is handling them much the same as Yahoo, i.e. without an industry, same for the various Merrill Lynch and Leahman Abs Corp stocks and some others of this type (a larger handful exist). However, this does not excuse situations like TSA, AOB, GCFB and OFI that have charts going back several years and have no Industry designation. I still contend that newer stocks such as ALJ, ARXT, CHAP, CXSP, DMND, GGXY, HEM, NSR, PDRT, SIMO, THS and VLCM, to list just a few, should get their industry designations in a more timely manner. So that we can trust the stocks shown without an industry designation truly have no industry designation to show.
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StockGuy		Posted : Sunday, August 7, 2005 8:40:08 PM
Administration Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187		We'll work on the industry designations for those companies that do not currently have one. Thanks for pointing these out.
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S2		Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:53:00 PM
Registered User Joined: 4/6/2005 Posts: 239		I see that VRTS has been removed from the active symbols. I also see that there are now 174 symbols without an industry group, up from 167 when this thread was started 11 days ago; and that those with more than a years worth of chart, listed above, still do not have an industry assigned. What does it take to get these addressed?
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StockGuy		Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2005 5:06:08 PM
Administration Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187		The data department is working on these, S2. We've already changed the way we handle stocks that have stopped (or appear to have stopped) trading. The industry group classifications are being addressed as well.
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S2		Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2005 4:57:52 PM
Registered User Joined: 4/6/2005 Posts: 239		StockGuy, I see that with the Aug 19th update there was a significant reduction in symbols without industries. Thank you. TSA, The Sports Authority, Inc. still does not have an industry, even though they have a chart that goes back to 1998; YAHOO lists them in the Sevice Sector and the Sporting Goods Store Industry. I am glad to hear that the way Worden is handling non trading stocks has changed. Hopefully the method for handling new stocks being traded will also be changed so that there is a much shorter period (mesaured in days rather than months) before an industry is assigned. Again, thanks for addressing these items.
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MrMonk		Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:31:04 PM
Registered User Joined: 12/7/2004 Posts: 18		Gentlemen, FYI - I've just exported one day of "All Stocks" to text and imported the list to my app. Of 6846 stock symbols exported 104 have no industry group...
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Doug_H		Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:58:00 AM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 4,308		Our data department is regularly in contact with the vendor to get industry groups assigned. Thanks for taking the time to post. - Doug Teaching Online!
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GrahamSanJose		Posted : Thursday, November 3, 2005 3:16:59 PM
Registered User Joined: 10/7/2004 Posts: 22		My query is about the EPS data quality. I am trying to use some of the EPS fields in an easyscan to filter out companies with poor results. I am frustrated by what seems to me a very large number of ticker symbols that have N/A when I think there is, in fact, data available for them. Some tickers have data for yearly EPS but not for the quarters, some have annual earnings data entered, but no % change fields entered. As a specific example. Use the following list as a watchlist, then put all of the EPS change values and Earnings values into 8 columns in the watchlist. All of these tickers have over a year of price data, they have some value in the Earnings 1YR column, but the rest of the columns seem very inconsistent to me. Can you help me understand why? I happen to have started with stocks showing a volume surge today and then selected those with no entry in the EPS % change 1yr column as the example. In general I wouldn't care, because I don't want to look at companies that don't have good data available for EPS, but it seems to me I'm missing some good quality companies using this approach. To be VERY specific: Why is data missing for V, VPI, ASML, and PDFS just to pick a few. Thanks!! ------------ ABGX ACTU ACUS ADZA AIX AIZ ASML ATPG BFR BFT BKHM BLT BMD BRLC BTUI CTRX CUTR CVO DRRX ECIL ELOS GCOM GOL HDSN HEB ICGE ICON IED IINT IMA LMIA MIM NMTI PDFS PKD PLA PWEI Q RRI SNMX TEO TFSM TNOX TQNT URGI V VECO VPI XMSR
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Craig_S		Posted : Friday, November 4, 2005 12:05:47 PM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 18,819		In order for a stock to display an EPS change in TeleChart it must move from positive to another positive earnings value. These stocks either moved from negative to negative or negative to positive. Once they move from positive to positive they will begin to display EPS percent changes. - Craig Here to Help!
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GrahamSanJose		Posted : Friday, November 4, 2005 12:48:09 PM
Registered User Joined: 10/7/2004 Posts: 22		Understand the positive to positive requirement, but.... For my 4 specific examples: V, VPI, ASML, PDFS My other data sources (IBD, Fidelity) show 8 quarters of positive EPS data. (6 for PDFS). In all these cases I expected to find full EPS %change entries but don't. V - has none VPI - missing 3rd Qtr Back and year ASML - missing all but latest Qtr PDFS - missing all but latest Qtr Perhaps a difference in data provided by your vendor? Or my sources are wrong? If I find these 4 examples easily are there others? Sorry I confused the issue by listing too many stocks. Also can you tell me if the "EPS percent change latest YR" is based on the past 4 quarters or based on FY to FY? Thanks.
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Doug_H		Posted : Friday, November 4, 2005 12:57:48 PM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 4,308		It's the latest 4 quarters. Here is the definition from the help file: EPS Percent Change (Latest Yr) The percentage change in earnings for the latest 4 quarters compared to the preceding 4 quarters. An appropriate criterion to include in many types of screens. Also a common criterion to sort by, with the best earners on top. All of the definitions can also be found at the following link: Definitions of all built in scanning and sorting criteria - Doug Teaching Online!
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rliu13		Posted : Friday, November 4, 2005 9:52:40 PM
Gold Customer Joined: 11/2/2004 Posts: 35		I think now I understand the problem about the EPS% data in my recent post. But I have to disagree with Craig's explaination of proprer display of EPS%. Why does it have to be from positive to positive? That doesn't make sense to me. But it does explain the problem in my recent post. It looks like if a stock's 1st quarter EPS% is negative, say, -100%, and the following two quarters are in red, TC2005 can't process it, it then simply took the 1st EPS% data and fill the next two. Now we got the 4 EPS% data look like this -100%, -100%,-100%, +200%. I got lot less such occurance now after my recent posting. But now these tickers are blank with no EPS% data. So what seems to me that the data department, without proper interpretation of the data, filled recent data with previous ones,which are false, now simply take out the data if they are not from positive to positive. If that's the case, which I now believe, the EPS% should not be used at all. I'd rather have raw data, just EPS. Yes, EPS% actually is more informative than real EPS data. But wrong interpretation can mislead. It doesn't have to be from + to +, 'cause we're talking about percentage here. As an example, a company's raw EPS data for recent quarters show(in $) -10 mil; -5 mil; -1 mil; + 1 mil; (future quarters:+2.5 mil; +4 mil; + 5 mil;) I will prefer this stock than GE, cuz the current EPS% show me +, +, +, even though the actual EPS is negative. This tells me a turnaround company with good growth. Now in TC2005, this type of stocks show blank EPS%, nothing. Some one may say they don't trade those, but I do. I had a good return on FOXH this year(now with blank EPS%), and take a look at TXU and it's four quarter EPS%(repeated EPS%?), when I got in last year with a negative EPS%). My point is when raw data is processed, it now has someone's OPINION. You can't make correct judgement on wrong data. My 2 cents.
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Craig_S		Posted : Monday, November 7, 2005 3:21:13 PM
Worden Trainer Joined: 10/1/2004 Posts: 18,819		It is not an opinion but industry standard that our vendor is applying. It is the math that does not work on certain calculations. Let's look at PDFS as an example. I have copied the raw EPS data from our vendor to show calculations on the lastest two quarters. EPS %Change Latest Quarter .06-.01=.05 0.05/0.01 = 5 or 500% (as reported in program) EPS %Change 2nd Quarter Back .05 - (-.02) = .07 .07/(-.02) = (-3.5) or -350% As shown here, the calculation for percent change shows a -350%. The only way to render a positive is to apply an absolute value to the denominator and GAAP standards do not use that method. - Craig Here to Help!
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rliu13		Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2005 12:04:43 AM
Gold Customer Joined: 11/2/2004 Posts: 35		Well, maybe it should be named as GAAP EPS%. I think those accountants or whoever made this GAAP standard should be spanked. Just kidding. Hope you know I didn't mean to blame anyone at Worden. But I think this will be a serious blow to people using some fundamentals. If a company happened to have a bad quarter in red among many good quarters, the EPS% will show the company having TWO bad quarters instead of ONE. If used for market timing, you're likely gonna be very late. There will be many other negative effects I can think of. And what about bear market? Anyway, it's good to know what's really going on with the EPS%. Regards.
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