Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 4
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-Edit. Post deleted by mistake while attempting to sticky the post.
Kuf
In krniethamer's original post, he said that he would like to hear from others out there who are genuinely trading for a living...making between $60K and $120K per year. There were some other details in his post but this is what got the topic started.
krniethamer, we apologize for the deletion. Result of a quirk in the forum code which we'll try to remedy.
StockGuy
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 Platinum Customer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 50
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I'd like to see if anyone has the guts to tell his or her story - especially as hard as the last several years have been.
I challenge someone to post a good story about your secrets and how you learned them. If we like it, we'll highlight it on the home page as a "Think for Yourself" feature - making sure lots of people will hear your story.
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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krniethamer:
Thanks for starting what I suspect will be a very interesting and frequently visited thread here in the TC2000 forum. I have a gut feeling that there really are some people out there who would meet your qualifications for trading for a living, and I'll bet that for some, the overall direction of the market has made little difference. Now...if we can just get them to stop by and share their stories with us.
The challenge has been made. I'm anxious to see where this goes.
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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Registered User
Joined: 12/1/2004
Posts: 4
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This forum is great. I am really looking forward to this thread as I feel many others will. My first browse after downloading yesterday...whew, what an exercise in patience with IE. I have dial-up and the process took 1 1/2 hours. So many posts ...so little time.
HOPHAR
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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Welcome to the forums, hophar! We'll look forward to hearing more from you when you have some time.
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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Registered User
Joined: 12/1/2004
Posts: 6
Location: Walker Lake, Nevada
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 Just downloaded Worden Studio, by modem(1.5 hours. Me & the dog took a catnap on the couch. This is nice and am looking forward to using it and all future improvements. I will be watching this thread also. I think the criteria (60K) is a great criteria but would also like to hear from people who trade for a living, qualifying with a bit less income or even trading to supplement their retirement. Thank for this service, I think it be a winner!
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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Thanks! And welcome to Worden Studio and the discussion forums. As expected, I see some interest in this thread. I hope we'll have some people sharing their stories real soon!
In between catnaps with the dog, we hope we'll hear from you frequently!
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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Registered User
Joined: 12/3/2004
Posts: 3
Location: Ireland.
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Greetings from Ireland.
Just installed studio today. Been trading, as a hobby, and using TC2000 for about two and a half years. Embarrassed to say how little money I have made but the main thing is I am UP (30% approx). I am treating it all as if it were a collage course but it looks like it is going to be a life time of learning. Struggling with the phsycological side of it but having fun doing it. From what I can see Worden Studio suits my trading as I do fundamental analysis first (quality stocks only) and technical second. I am really looking forward to how this thread continues.
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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Welcome from the other side of the big pond!
A lifetime of learning isn't such a bad thing. Especially when we can all learn from each other in forums such as these.
And having fun while you're learning...hey, you can't beat that combination!
Thanks for contributing. We hope to hear more from you.
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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Registered User
Joined: 11/21/2004
Posts: 15
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Also from Ireland here.. trade US markets
I have been trading for about three years pretty much full time. Not needed to make money as have other income and have really tried to spend my time learning and building capital.. sure have learnt a lot but capital is less now rather than increased.. which is disappointing to say the least!
Always being careful I never risked so much that I could lose too much until I had figured a winning strategy. I have had periods of decent gains but then it always seems to fall apart again.. just when I think I have made the breakthrough..
Most of this time I was daytrading but now have given up on that altogether.. its very hard to find and believe traders who genuinely can make consistant profits at daytrading I think. I have one american daytrader friend who I have known for most of this time and whilst he made a substantial profit in his first two years or so of trading.. in the tech boom.. he has basically failed to make a living at it for the last three years.
I have been working a lot of this year on swing trading.. few days to weeks and even into months depending.. with portfolio's including both long and short positions.. this seems promising altho still prone to feel optimistic followed by unpleasant reminders of just how hard this is.. am keeping head above water this year and slightly ahead as the year draws to a close.. maybe three years is not such a long time really.. I did believe by now I would be rolling in cash of course when I started! lol Probably would never have started if had known the way it would go.. but then I still believe I may yet get on top of it and I can think of few ways of working and earning that I would prefer to this if it was highly profitable ever for me.
I am lucky in that I have totally supportive wife who truly believes in this too and is also fascinated by the markets.. without her I would never have kept going through the worst of times. That is worth a lot.. trading I am sure can become a source of tension at home if you are not on the same page as your partner.
So, if I were to render any advice to an aspiring trader.. it would be dont expect too much too fast.. (my early success was the worst thing for me I think)...
preserve your capital at all costs..
watch and learn, try to discover the type of trading that suits your own personality best..
and expect it to be hard work of course... and above all.. you have to LIKE IT
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Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 4
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Niel040, Thanks for your reply. Your story sounds exactly like mine. Early success, struggles, supportive wife etc. I too have been focusing on swing trading lately but have not been able to come up w/ a system that I feel confident trading. My concern now is that the combination of how hard it is to consistently make money trading, working full time, and having a family, I don't know if I will be able to spend the time necessary to learn to trade successfully. Like you I have not given up and will not give up unless I never meet someone who does what I want to do, be a successful trader.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/16/2004
Posts: 105
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I suspect that anyone that has the abilities & success to have a consistent income from trading alone at these levels would suggest that a transition period that involves a learning curve be applied beforhand. An income producing method of trading vs a wealth building type of investing that the majority of us fall under, requires a different type of mindset, risk tolarence, & trading style. Trade patterns are much shorter & the ability to gather practical data & apply it to price action both technicaly & fundamentaly in an instance with an everchanging & complex market is an acute skill indead. Having a winning system alone may not produce the best results for all of us without considering an intensive understanding of such things like TC2000 & TCNet. As well as the economic & fundamental aspects of the total market system.There is a case for probibilities here & whether trades can consistently outperform in any market direction.
Thats why I believe this transitional period from wealth building to income producing trading styles should be accompanied with learning stratagies such those provided here & with all the software, books, tapes & videos one can get there hands on. After all, trading for a living is a profession in itself. One that should be approuched like any business venture.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 4
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Bucket Shop, Thanks for your reply. I currently have $32k available to trade. I have broken even over the last 3 years. I have not placed a trade in the last year due to my lack of confidence my trading skills, more specifically a system I have confidence in. I have no problem pulling the trigger when I see an opportunity I feel good about, but that has typically been a chart I run across that looks good from an IBD CANSLIM philosophy. With that said do you trade for wealth building or for income. Please share more specifics if you feel comfortable, ie trader vs investor, position size, success rate, holding time, technical analysis vs fundamentals or combination, other software like Metastock, Tradestation etc to develop systems.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/3/2004
Posts: 3
Location: Ireland.
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Folks,
Might I suggest some reading material.
"Come Into My Trading Room" by Dr Alexander Elder. I found it very good and it is never too far away from the PC.
If everything goes to plan his previous one "Trading For A Living" will be in my Christmas stocking on the 25th. Now there's a supportive wifey  .
Neil040 good to see your post. Don't loose heart we will conquer this trading yet. It's a bit like chasing the end rainbow when I was a young fella in Sligo. The dam thing was always in the next field.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/16/2004
Posts: 105
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QUOTE (krniethamer) Bucket Shop, Thanks for your reply. I currently have $32k available to trade. I have broken even over the last 3 years. I have not placed a trade in the last year due to my lack of confidence my trading skills, more specifically a system I have confidence in. I have no problem pulling the trigger when I see an opportunity I feel good about, but that has typically been a chart I run across that looks good from an IBD CANSLIM philosophy. With that said do you trade for wealth building or for income. Please share more specifics if you feel comfortable, ie trader vs investor, position size, success rate, holding time, technical analysis vs fundamentals or combination, other software like Metastock, Tradestation etc to develop systems.
krniethamer,
In my book $20k is a minimum for income producing trading. My trading style is rather unuasual in that I will come & go from the market with different objectives. Right now my average hold period is overnight to four or five days.I take it you have the dicipline to be a trader being you have stayed on the side lines for the most part. A diciplined approach will wait for an obvious move & then take profits with a minumum market time exposure. To minimize the risk associated with an individual stock or few positions, Daytraders consider ETF's the way to go for income producing trading with large blocks. Using 5 & 15 min. realtime charting with candles & holding a trend until it begins to really break out or is exhausting.Like you, I don't feel confident enough with a lot of daytrading or gorilla trading tactics.So I diversify my risk with ETF's & 5 to 20 securities & swing trade the wipsaws.Until I learn more I will take an average 10% to 20% on a good uptrend like we have hade since the Aug. low & sit on the sidlines if there are no significant hot sectors moving in a consolidation period.I've been using TC2000 for a few months & has significantly reduced my stop out's & increased my winning positions.I will sort out about 200 stock watch list using fundamentals ,such as earnings growth last & second quarter back, revunue increase last quarter,P/E,debt to equity,income after tax etc., Then I will sort out these according to the hottest sectors with a mix of cap size & price. From the rest I use this group & do a scan using stochastics,BOP,TSV to name a few. I'll flip thru these charts with candles set with BOP colors & money stream on the price window.Out of a few ideal buy candidates I'll draw trend lines & play strong momentum plays that have turned from an oversold position within an uptrent channnel.Other things I consider are there relationship to maving averages like 21,50,& 200 on a daily chart.This may be an overall glimps of my style, but I still am just an investor with that gleem in my eye for that some day, to trade for a living!!
OF COURSE TC2000 IS HELPING ME GET CLOSER TO THAT DREAM!!
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Registered User
Joined: 12/6/2004
Posts: 2
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krniethamer, I was doing a little scanning over the chat topics and noticed this site. I have been trading as a sole source of income for the last 8 years after spending 10 years as a naval aviator and I can honestly say that you can make a living trading. However, your income targets will have to be adjusted for numerous factors. Account size, risk, lifestyle expenses, etc. One also needs to realize that cash is your business foundation so you can't go out and buy a big house or new cars because you'll be eating away at your earning potential not to mention adding stress to your trading by having large expenses you must cover every month. You should expect to have at least 10 times the amount in your trading account to the income you desire. 60k yearly income means 600k in your account. Sorry if this seems high to everyone but to do this for a living and not be taking large risks you'll need that amount. Remember you may not make any money or lose money in any given year so you have to feel confident you can pay the bills. If not you'll experience what every broke gambler experiences in Vegas. Total failure and then you'll have to go get a job. Which, if by the way, you've been trading for 3-4 years won't be easy. Expect to spend 8-10 hours a day between trading and research. I have found that flat and down years I have had the most success. You must be able to consistently short the market as well as go long and have a keen understanding on how the economy affects each stock sector. There is always a bull and bear market going on so watching the indexes really gets you nowhere. It took me 4 years to finally figure that out.
I have had one down year in the last eight and luckily it was in my second year of trading. I don't mean to sound cocky but that's my record so far so I know anyone here can do this with hard work. Since that year I spend the last day in each month reviewing all trades made in that month to see if I am developing any bad habits, or overtrading my account. Better to fix the problem at the end of the month rather than at the end of the year. I have also had some lean years where peanut butter sandwiches are the norm. Having an understanding wife that works helps to get you through the lean years when your gaining confidence and learning the realities of trading.
Another issue I have learned over the years is that there are no black boxes to help you trade. You must be able to use a combination of fundemental and technical analysis. However, the big money will come from good old gut instinks with a little luck mixed in. Experience will prove this out. Charts help but at major turning points in the market you have to go against the crowd. Every time I feel overly confident about a trade I make little to no money or even worse start losing money. If your one to not like being stressed or unsure trading may not be your thing. I have found that landing a jet aboard an aircraft carrier at night is less stressful than going long on full margin with my account after the market has fallen 20 percent and I'm trying to start buying when everyone is selling.
I find this to at times be very humbling and frustrating but nailing a good trade keeps me in the game. Don't make the mistake of doing this for the big money but instead succeeding in hitting single and doubles day after day. Once you can consistently make good trades and limit the risk in bad trades you'll have the confidence to do it for a living. I'm no big wall street hedgie making millions of dollars but I can say trading your own money is a lot harder than trading someone elses. Hope some of this helps everyone, good luck to all.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/16/2004
Posts: 105
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craigschilling, we are fortunate to have an eagle with their wings navigate this interesting thread.Spoken with a keen sense for encapsulating the essense of professional trading.For traders such as myself, with goals to someday shed this employment chain & join the ranks of the few who enjoy the independence & thrill of being a provider of liquidity to the market place, in exchange for an honarable professional living.You have put this in a good perspective for those willing to make this change for ourselves.Endoubtably some nessessary foundations & a framework of many skills & considerations must be experienced to assure success. Thanks!
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Registered User
Joined: 11/13/2004
Posts: 5
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craigschilling, I am new to this thread and appreciate your insights and advice. I especially enjoyed your comparison of the stess levels of trading to that of carrier night landings. I do not have that personal experience, but as an Naval Aircraft Maintenance Officer I have an appreciation of carrier night operations and respect for the pilots, crew and deck personnel that make it all happen.
Regards, Ed
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Registered User
Joined: 12/6/2004
Posts: 2
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edwardleite, the MO is my idol. You may not get all the glory but we couldn't do a thing without your hard work and attention to detail. I still to this day, even as a reservist, don't know how those guys on the deck do it. Once, I got on the deck I couldn't get in the aircraft fast enough. Way too dangerous of a place to spend a lot of time around, especially at night.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 49
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There is only one way to tell if you can trade for a living and that is: is your trading making you a living? If your trading is not making you a living now I do not believe it would be a responsible indivual to quit a job to see if one's trading could make one a living.
I do not trade for a living but my job allows me to trade during the day, which has given me the opportunity to gain some valuable experience. I have found that my best results come when I BUY RIGHT. Do not take me wrong Selling right is just as important, but I believe one has a bigger window to sell in than to buy in. I have found the best time to buy is when the price has pierced a certan resistance point, whether one is using a day chart or an hourly chart or a 10 minute chart.
When I use a resistance point I know that there must be other buyers beside myself, because I alone do not have the authority to break any barrier on my own.
I have found that my best results come when I am focused on only one and at times maybe two stocks at a given time. I have found the more positions I am trying to play at the same time the more my results mirror the overall market.
I would suggest starting with at least $50,000. I would never put more than $10,000 into any one position and would seldom ( maybe 4 or 5 times a year ) have over $20,000 in play at any given time.
Treat every trade like it is life or death.
Do not guess!!
Do not get bored and take your eye off of a position.
Buy slow and sell quick.
A reasonable goal should be $10,000 to $40,000 return, depending on how much time you can afford to participate.
If your $50,000 gets below $40,000 quit !! Because there is a severe flaw in your thought process, DO NOT think the law of averages are going to start catching up with you.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/13/2004
Posts: 5
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craigschilling - thanks for your comments. I appreciate that. Ed Leite
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Registered User
Joined: 12/1/2004
Posts: 6
Location: Walker Lake, Nevada
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willimike
I'm not sure what I did, (pre-first cup of coffee "fog")but I must have pressed "quote" and your post is up 2x on my screen. Not a bad thing since your post was well thought out, included down to earth guidelines and a good baseline for those of us who want to 'trade for living' to begin a grounded plan based on a facts and what is really required to make it happen. Thank you.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/8/2004
Posts: 89
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I do not trade for a living but do make at least the amount cited earlier through trading. I spend probably 1-2 hours a day reviewing the markets, researching, placing orders, et al.
I generally focus on biotechnology and energy, with a few plays in banking and finance and technology. Over a year ago I began investing at least 20 percent in foreign equities.
I review Don and Peter's notes and occaisonally take advantage of the tidbits I find. The reports are replete with wisdom.
I use a combination of fundatmental research, charting, discipline, common sense, and, I suppose, good guess work.
I read a lot about the markets and draw my own conclusions.
I search Edgar before investing in something new or unknown.
Since avoiding/cutting losses is always more difficult, I make an effort to be diligent in this regard.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 4
Location: Suwanee, GA
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I apologize for going off topic, BUT why is this thread a "sticky"?
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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alatar:
One of the Worden administrators made this a sticky post, primarily because it has turned into quite an interesting thread with lots of very interesting responses. We wanted to make sure forum visitors didn't miss it, so it was made a sticky so it would appear at the top of the list of topics.
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 4
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I've been away for the last two weeks and am just now catching up on the posts since then. I didn't know until now that my original post had been deleted by mistake. I will try to reconstruct it for future readers.
I am married w/ 3 kids. I sell pharmaceuticals and have done so for the last 15 years. I have traded on and off for the last 10 years and during that time have tried to learn everything I can about trading w/ my goal being to trade for a living. I currently have $32k available to trade. I tried trading seriously 3 years ago and have broken even since then. I have not placed a trade in the last year due to my lack of confidence in my trading skills, more specifically a system I have confidence in. My strategy to date has been day/momentum trading. In 10 years of study I have never met or talked w/ anyone who "successfully trades for a living".
I am looking for successful traders to share "specifics" about what they've accomplished as traders. What do I mean by "specifics"?
1. For my discussion a successful trader is someone who relies on their trading income solely for support.
2. How much capital do you trade w/?, $25k, $50k, $100k, $500k, $1m etc.
3. Here is the BIG ONE. ONLY if you're COMFORTABLE sharing this type of info, HOW MUCH HAVE YOU MADE, ie declared on your tax return, each year since you started trading?
4. What basic trading style do you use, (day, swing, momentum, technical or fundamental analysis, other, etc). No offense but I'm not asking for details on specific trading systems, just basic styles.
5. With no disrespect, I am not looking for advice on how to trade for a living unless you have done it. If you do trade for a living please share your story first.
Why am I asking successful traders to share this type of personal info? I am skeptical that it can be done. If over a 10 year period I have yet to meet a "successful trader" I don't want to waste time trying to accomplish something that is impossible or only a select few, ie the expceptions to the rule, can do.
Don't get me wrong. TC2000 is a wonderful tool and I think I can utilize it to help me trade successfully. I am grateful they offer this platform to have this discussion. I just need the confidence to know it's possible and the only way I believe I can gain that confidence is by knowing it can be done.
Thanks everyone who has contributed to date. Each of you have confirmed many of my expectations about trading. Thanks to Neil040, Bucket_Shop, willimike and bludog for sharing your thoughts. Special thanks to craigschilling for coming the closest to what I was asking.
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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Thanks for re-posting your original questions, krneithamer. By doing so, you have likely breathed new life into an already interesting thread.
Let's hear the stories behind those of you who "trade for a living"!
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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 Gold Customer
Joined: 12/19/2004
Posts: 108
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I just want to let everyone know upfront that I do not trade for a living.... yet.
As my goal is to consistly make over $75K year after year and not just once in while.
Having said that, I will not post on this thread, (other than this one), until I have accomplished such goal.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/18/2004
Posts: 20
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I am what I call practicing trading for a living. I have been trading for about 5 years. I just in the last year have started to form a plan for the future. I traded this year (2004) to perfect my income trading ability. My goals were small to make the obtainable at first, success breads success. My goal was to make at least $2000 a month income. I started out trading all my normal strategies and found it a little to much work. So I looked through all my notes on trades and have found that the trades that I did the best on overall were the Bull put spread and Bear call spreads. So that is what I did all year in this account. I started the year with 25k in the account and as of my last close today I am up 89.5%. Still a little shy of my goal but very close, and still may make it before end of year trading. I have been doing all my trades on spreads out of the money as an example when GOOG was at what I thought was a low I did the Jan 160/165 Bull put spread for a net of $1.10. I did 20 contracts for a total income to my account of $2200. Now I just wait until Jan expiration as long as GOOG stays at or above $165 my PUTs will expire worthless and my trade was a success. The two key things you must make sure your spread is under what you think is good support and you have a plan to exit the trade if things go wrong. You will not get rich with this method but you will generate an income. I figure if I can maintain this level I will be able to increase my income level next year. New goal will be $3000 a month. I plan on making sure this will work over the next 4 years and if I can do that then I will retire from the make a living job and enjoy life.
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Gold Customer
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 79
Location: Illinois
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I tend to be an aggresive trader - I seem to be able to find stocks that are bouncing up from an oversold temporary bottom. I say "trader" because I would like to make a quick 20%+ gain. I wind up with a lot of paper notes (dated) referring to individual stocks to watch that were near "ripe" - way too oversold based on TC2000 indicators. Every day I create more notes and occasionally a stock catches my eye because of (for example) a 100% gain within the last 3 months - WOW! Then I look through my notes (because the symbol looks familiar) and, sure enough, I was going to possibly buy that stock if it met my conditions (which it did) but I lost track due to my note "system".
I'm sort of rambling, but, my point is that excellent buy candidates can be found and timed using TC2000 scans. By visually refining the scan results one can wind up with a very small handful of near ready-to-buy stocks. I can "confirm" (by looking back) that I had the info that I needed (technically) to buy a particular stock on my terms - but - I failed to follow through because of:
1) Lack of monitoring my watchlist of buy candidates / as in fishing, I wasn't watching the "bobber" (telling me I had a bite, because of item #2)
2) Poor watchlist follow-up / the list of buy candidates grows longer every day - some on the list should be deleted. The list becomes so long that I tend to put off looking at it.
3) FEAR of buying / the "one that got away" often was the one that I was afraid to go after when it met my buy conditions because of poor general market conditions reported by the news media - I got scared. Always better to own a stock that participated in a market rally rather than seeing that same stock you were "going to buy" having already moved up "because of" a market rally.
4) FEAR of selling / I think spotting a top may be THE hardest thing to do. Missing a buy only costs you "potential" gains. Missing a valid sell signal can cost you real gains you've already earned. Selling too soon after a profit can really hurt your feelings, but you've retained capital which can be put to work elsewhere (kind of like 3 steps fwd/2 steps back). I sold AAPL in Aug only because a "market guru" insisted - I made 20% - it's up 133% at this time and I would probably sell now based on my own judgement).
5) Confidence / one a method has been proved to work - have the confidence to execute. I have proved to myself that I have a method that seems to work - failure to stick to the plan is my biggest obstacle.
6) ONE MORE DAY / I have had terrific gains turn into losses because I would wait "one more day" to decide what I will do, basing my decision on tomorrows action. I'm still amazed that I could watch a stock with a 150% gain turn into a real loss because, every time I considered selling it, it looked like it was starting to rise again, so I would wait one more day. I think the bottom line is "greed". I can't sell today if there is a chance that it will be worth more tomorrow (even if it's already worth less than a couple of days ago). This is a killer !! My portfolio has suffered more from this than anything else! This can start as a decision not to sell because of tax considerations (turn a short-term gain into long-term by holding on) Ouch! Soon, you're port is overloaded with junk that should have been sold long ago but is slowly gaining. Better to dump those losers (finally) and use the capital to invest in current potential winners.
I guess confidence in what you're doing seems to come to the forefront. The hardest thing to overcome would be the tendency to follow the crowd. If you can prove (even if only on paper) that you have a solid plan, stick to that plan. Use common sense backup (such as, don't be stupid - if you're bleeding, stop the flow). I believe one can learn from the mistakes one makes - the hardest part is admitting the mistake! I'm still wrestling with that one.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/29/2004
Posts: 20
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Don't know if this will help anyone but I'm a full-time trader. I use TC2000 stocastics against a group of NASDAQ stocks to decide which are "short eligible", which are "long eligible" and which are neither on any given day. Also look at COMPQX and QQQQ to make the same determination overall. Then trade on pattern recognition, stocastics and MA crossovers. Entry based on inflection points after two legs up or down (one leg if steep enough) and a compatible stocastic signal. Exit based on opposite stocastic signal but MA crossover keeps me in the trade for several more bars. Usually have 10 to 15 stocks eligible at any one time. Usually do 5 to 10 trades a day.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/16/2004
Posts: 10
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I’ve never meet anyone that was truly successful “trading for a living”. Over the past fifteen years I've taken a “trading for retirement” approach. My goal was to make a 15% return each and every year. That’s a doubling of capital every five years. I was very successful at doing this, with only one bad year, 2002, where I experienced a 10% drawdown. Naturally that down year occurred the first year of my retirement, making for a stressful start. As it turned out my account recovered quickly and my retirement has been with little or no compromise of lifestyle; earning enough money from my investing to pay my way. My investing, a value strategy, requires about two hours a week with a quick check of market activity at the end of each trading day. I stick with stocks in the S&P500 and cull out those that pass an Intrinsic Value test; ala Benjamin Graham. (I’m patiently waiting for the TC2000 upgrade that will let me do the IV calculation using a custom pcf, eliminating my need for a separate spreadsheet). My buys are found using trendlines, RSI and Candlestick Signals to find trend reversals. I sell using trend and support line breaks, following Trader Vic’s strategy. This approach has given me consistent returns with minimal effort while letting me focus on more important things in life like, grandchildren and golf. Happy Grandpa
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Registered User
Joined: 12/1/2004
Posts: 6
Location: Walker Lake, Nevada
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Happy Grandpa,
Thank You for your contribution to "trading for a living".
I am using this year to establish if I can really manage basicly the same thing, to supplement retirement with trading.
1. I have witten a business paln with account drawdown limits, stategy etc.
2. I have set up a trading diary as this will help to spot problems and enable me to "fix it"
3. I am keeping a financial balance spreadsheet to track brokerage fees, wins and losses.
The market opens at 6:30 a.m. my time which allows me two hours before I leave for work.
I am using RSI and candlesticks also but am not familiar with Trader Vic's stategy.
Continued Good Returns,
Kaye
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Registered User
Joined: 12/16/2004
Posts: 10
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Kaye, Sounds like you're starting off with a sound approach. I found the critical factor was having the discipline to stick to the plan, particularly on the sell side. That's were Trader Vic comes in. Victor Sperandeo wrote a book entitled Methods of a Wall Street Master, 1991 Wiley. I think Amazon can still find copies even though it's out of print now. It's my bible on selling stocks. Good luck. HG
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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I have traded for a living since 1999. I am a fulltime trader 6 month of the yr and the rest I swing trade on and off.
3 things at least that you will need to succeed at this. Be alone, $75000 min (and margin), and technology. If you are married with kids it will be difficult, mostly if your spouse do not believe in what you do.
You must simplify yourself and your trading tecniques and learn to accept losses; there will be lots along the way.
I do not use any indicators but Volume and support and resistant and ofcourse level II and time/sales - the price tells me everything else i need to know. Get use to market orders; when you need to get in a stock now there is no time to chase and the same when you need to jump. If you use limit orders you will miss alot of the plays. I personally play breakouts and momentum stocks displaying unusual volume and very very volatile. That is now may be next week I will need to change my strategy. Get use to change the market is always evolving.
I trade blocks of shares min 5000shr and will jump on no more than 2 stocks at the time. Looking at 2 levelII windows and 2 charts and so on at the same time can be difficult when things are really moving.
So keep it as simple as you can.
Day traders close their positions by day's end although I have broken the rule many times and make huge profits that way; I have also lost lots in that way.
As for Stop loss orders forget about it. You must do it mentally and click the button when the time has come. Sometimes something changes in the last second and you have to be able to change your mind. Machines have no mind.
Set your stops mentally for daytrade and execute them.
About technology you will need at least 1 system running 3 displays for the trading station and another system with 2 or 3 displays dedicated to news, research, and order entry. You need to keep the systems clean and lean. This cannot be the children's computer. High Speed is a must.
You cannot go to a gun fight with just a knife, you will be setting yourself to failure.
But the most important thing of all is your state of mind. Keep it simple and like Mr Worden has said one time or another "you get pay for taking risk". It is not an easy task, and there is so much more to be said.
I hope this is of help.
BigBlock
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 11
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Well I know all kinds of people plenty of them taking home about $1000 a day with a 30k account this is not a game for rules depends how good your at it, doesnot have to do how much indicators you use how long you look at the chart
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 13
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Like several others here, I've been trying to succeed at trading for over 5 years now. Lost my entire account's worth of $40k 4 years ago trading options, but I must admit that I had no business doing that since I didn't know what I was doing. I Crawled away from the market licking my wounds, saved up another $30k, and 2 years ago made another attempt at it, only this time I had done much more reading and seminars. Once I lost $15k I got too spooked and backed away once again. After even more books, I just started trading again about 1 month ago and already lost $5k, so now I'm just sitting on the side-lines in total confusion and disgust. I have to admit I have no confidence in my trading abilities, nor do I have any system or style that I feel secure enough with. I sware, I am absolutely convinced the Market Makers are watching every step I take, because without fail, every single time I enter a position the stock immediately turns the other direciton and just keeps on going further, and further away. And I'm so focused on NOT becoming the market by buying too large of a position... I'm talking about buying or shorting 1000 - 1500 shares per trade on stocks that trade a minimum of 200,000 shares/day.
It's been my dream for the past 5 years to make a living doing this so I can be mobile on the road and take my job with me where ever I go, but I'm finally accepting I may never achive this dream, since I may never understand how to succeed at this. I have the perfect situation, too, where I run a business out of my home, and I'm single, so I have all the free time in the world to watch stocks during the day, yet I just can't seem to make it work out.
I guess I'll just stay on the side-lines until I figure out what I've been doing wrong.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (Mark7) Like several others here, I've been trying to succeed at trading for over 5 years now. Lost my entire account's worth of $40k 4 years ago trading options, but I must admit that I had no business doing that since I didn't know what I was doing. I Crawled away from the market licking my wounds, saved up another $30k, and 2 years ago made another attempt at it, only this time I had done much more reading and seminars. Once I lost $15k I got too spooked and backed away once again. After even more books, I just started trading again about 1 month ago and already lost $5k, so now I'm just sitting on the side-lines in total confusion and disgust. I have to admit I have no confidence in my trading abilities, nor do I have any system or style that I feel secure enough with. I sware, I am absolutely convinced the Market Makers are watching every step I take, because without fail, every single time I enter a position the stock immediately turns the other direciton and just keeps on going further, and further away. And I'm so focused on NOT becoming the market by buying too large of a position... I'm talking about buying or shorting 1000 - 1500 shares per trade on stocks that trade a minimum of 200,000 shares/day.
It's been my dream for the past 5 years to make a living doing this so I can be mobile on the road and take my job with me where ever I go, but I'm finally accepting I may never achive this dream, since I may never understand how to succeed at this. I have the perfect situation, too, where I run a business out of my home, and I'm single, so I have all the free time in the world to watch stocks during the day, yet I just can't seem to make it work out.
I guess I'll just stay on the side-lines until I figure out what I've been doing wrong.
Mark I have a couple of suggestions that may help your trading. This two books helped me long time ago and may help you also. Study " The Disciplined Trader: Devoloping winning attitudes" by Mark Douglas and also " Trading Chaos" by Bill Williams. Now I have mentioned many times that this is a game of personality and intelligence. It is posible that you are not cut to be a trader, if at the end of the road that is the case - use your energy on other positive things and invest your money in other different ways.
Good luck!
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 13
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Thanks, BigBlock. I'm so desperate I'd shove a spark-plug up my butt and hook it up to a 426 hemi if I though it would work. I'm going to buy those 2 books right now.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/19/2004
Posts: 1
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I see few winners above and I also have tried for 4 years. After taking large losses initially I read trading books and sample new approaches with paper trades and seldom experience winning. So far I am most impressed with IBD and the CANSLIM approach but need a good software to track breakouts. I hope TC 2000 can help.
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