Hi Bruce,

This is an older topic but one which I do have a question about.

What is the current policy about adjusting trade data to reflect distributions for ETF's? I remember last year that when I was using Free Stock Charts, there were some relatively large distributions made and the prices were not adjusted. This policy may be different with TC2000. In your previous comments, you state that "Adjustments are made for any payout large enough to affect the chart". What exactly is "large enough"? Thanks as always for your very helpful replies.

Charles

I just realized that I posted this under the Stockfinder group of topics. Does the answer to my question also apply to TC2000. I am a new user and I have not had a chance to explore Stockfinder yet. Thanks!

Charles

The same adjustments are made to StockFinder data and TC2000 version 12.2 data.

There isn't an objective definition beyond which adjustments are made. It is a subjective decision made by the data department.

We are planning to get all dividends backed into the closed end funds and stocks at some point, but I don't have a ETA on when it will happen.

Thanks for the reply. It will be good to have the data adjusted for distributions. I am assuming that the upcoming adjustments will also include ETF's? Thanks!

Charles

Thanks for your reply! Just to continue this topic, on Friday September 21, 2012, SPY paid a distribution that resulted in about a .75% decrease in the share price (as compared to the change in the S&P 500 index for the day). Would this qualify as a large enough decrease to justify for a chart adjustment? I follow SPY and it has really skewed my technical indicators and I don't see a change as of yet in the chart in TC 2000. Thanks!

Charles

"Large enough" is a fuzzy term and it is currently determined on a case-by-case basis by our data department. If they haven't made a change, it is likely that they determined that it didn't make a significant enough impact.

That said, you can always send an email to:

issues-data@worden.com

If there is a particular symbol for which you think the data is incorrect along with an explanation of the data error.

Hi Bruce,

Just to follow up on this discussion. At this time of the year, particularly with the big payouts ahead of the potential "fiscal cliff", dividend payments are common for stocks, mutual funds and ETFs. Since most of those who use TC2000 follow technical analysis, I think it is imperative to have prices adjusted for distributions because not to do so will result in distortions on the chart and not give a true picture of particular technical indicators. 

For instance, I am following EWA and EPOL. EWA is indicated down over 3% today on TC 2000 and EPOL is down over 1%. But, if you adjust the prices for distributions today, EWA is UP about 0.3% and EPOL UP over 1%. Using the charts on TC2000, this would place these 2 securities in sell territory (using my system) but with the adjustments, they remain a hold. I think this is a serious issue that needs to be adressed. I have to use another charting source just to get an accurate picture of the trading of these securities. This should not be necessary for those of us that use TC2000. I really do love using TC2000 but I think the foregoing is a major shortcoming. Doing these adjustments on a case by case basis is unacceptable. Please pass my concerns on to those who make the decisions in this matter. Thanks as always for your excellent service!

Charles

P.S. I just realized that this discussion in the the StockFinder section but my comments are referring to TC2000.

Thank you for your suggestion. It has been assigned case number 9598.

Thanks Bruce! How does one follow up on an assigned case number?

Charles

The database is not publicly available. You could contact technical support and they should be able look up the suggestion using the case number, but this would probably not give either you or the technical support agent any insight into when or if the suggestion is going to be implemented.

Thanks Bruce! I certainly hope something can be done about this. Most, if not all, of the iShares ETFs went ex-dividend on December 18th and now those charts are skewed. Take care!

Charles

I hope so too, but there are literally thousands of different suggestions. While almost all of the new features added to the program are the results of customer suggestions, the odds of any particular suggestion being implemented in a given release is quite low.

Thanks Bruce! I am really surprised that this issue has not been a larger issue with the users of TC2000 or that it has not been addressed by now (I see messages about this going back to at least 2008). In my mind, this feature would appear to be a no-brainer since, I would guess, almost every user of TC2000 focuses on technical analysis, which is heavily influenced by price action in most cases. From your feedback, it does not appear as though anything will be done about it anytime soon, if ever. While I really like TC2000 otherwise, and really appreciate your support and feedback, the lack of this feature is a deal breaker for me and I will have to explore other charting solutions. Once again, your support has been great. Thank you and take care!

Charles

[QUOTE=Bruce_L

I hope so too, but there are literally thousands of different suggestions. While almost all of the new features added to the program are the results of customer suggestions, the odds of any particular suggestion being implemented in a given release is quite low.

[/QUOTE]

Do not take my response is indicating it isn't going to happen. To the contrary, I actually know this is a feature we plan on implementing. I just can't tell you when it might happen. Or for that matter for sure even if, as there have been previously planned features that never got implemented.

My larger point is that we get a lot of suggestions. The probability of any given suggestion being implemented in the next update of the software is quite low. There is no way to get to the head of the line besides having a lot of people submit the same or a similar suggestion. And even then, what gets implemented may depend as much on what else is happening in a particular update as with the priority of the suggestion or bug fix in our database or even how simple or complicated it would be to add to the software.

I really appreciate your assistance. What I am hearing is that the charts MAY be adjusted to reflect the distributions, and implemented on an ongoing basis, but there is no timeline on when that may happen, if ever. in the meantime, the charts with the distributions will continue to be distorted by innacurate price changes until the prices are adjusted to reflect the distributions. 

We were hit with numerous distributions from iShares ETFs on December 18th (I only trade ETFs) and iShares is the largest ETF sponsor. Therefore, the majority of my iShare charts are producing false signals. Since this is the time of the year that distributions take place in many ETF securities, these distributions can be expected to take place soon in ETFs of other sponsors, as well. Some have probably already taken place and I may not have noticed (but I do now question some of my previous signals) but what this does is lead to questions about the accuracy of the charts since it appears as though adjustments for distributions are not routiely performed. I see that EWA, which experienced a distribution of about 3%, is still reflecting a large drop in share price (which is inaccurate) as a result of the distribution on 12/18. This just begs the question, what qualifies as a large enough distribution to warrant a price adjustment? Why would this process even be subjective anyway? Now, when there is a significant price drop, I would need to investigate to see if  it is caused by a distribution, this is unacceptable.

In light of the foregoing, I have suspended my useage of TC2000 for trading until I can find a reliable source of accurate charting software elsewhere. i just find it incredible that a company as large and well respected as Worden does not think that making distribution adjusted price changes to its charts is a high priority item! I also find it incredible that no one else has brought up this issue previously and expressed the serious nature of it. As previously stated, I would assume that most, if not all, users of TC2000 use technical analysis. A major component of technical analysis is price and if the charts don't reflect accurate price charts than the analysis is faulty. I have only been a paid user of TC2000 for a very short period of time (about 3-4 months or so) and have been generally pleased. Unfortunately, I now have questions about the accuracy of the charts on TC2000 and must look elsewhere for a source of accurate charting software. If this issue is addressed, and I have not decided to stay with any alternative software program, I may be back. Until that time I have not choice but to leave.

I don't want it to appear that I am dumping on you because your support has been the highligt of my time here. Take care and I wish you well.

Charles

Your interpretation and understanding of my response would appear to be accurate as would your analysis as to how such distributions and dividends can affect the technical analysis of a stock. Hopefully this will be done sooner rather than later, but I can't say for sure.

Interestingly enough (or not), we get complaints both when we do make adjustments for large dividends and when we don't (from different people with different interests). The only solution which could possibly satisfy both camps is probably something similar to what we already do in our TC2000 for Mutual Funds product where the customer can choose to either plot the actual historical prices or historical prices which have been adjusted.

Thanks Bruce! 

Your suggestion would be great if it happened but unfortunately I don't think this will happen anytime soon. I looked back at some older messages and I read concerns about the lack of distribution adjusted data as far back as 2004!! Eight years and still nothing done to correct  obviously inaccurate charting data (not adjusted for distributions routinely). To only adjust the price data subjectively (if the price change is large enough to affect the chart), and mostly only when asked to do so, is unacceptable. This would force users to always monitor distriutions for every security in our scans and to question, and investigate, each large price drop. If someone is monitoring hundreds, or thousands, of securities and is forced to do this, the process becomes tedious and time consuming and partially defeats the purpose of using software for efficiency. Also, the universe of securities changes almost daily depending on which securities meet a specific set of indicators.

It is difficult to understand those who would complain about the data being adjusted. To adjust the data would result in an accurate price chart. Interestingly, I did not come accross any posts complaining about distribution adjusted price data, only complaints about the lack of adjustments. 

ETFs are becoming a larger part of many investor's/trader's portfolios. I do understand that distribution price adjustments ARE made for mutual funds; why not for ETFs or stocks? What are ETFs? They are just mutual funds that trade daily on the stock markets. For those of us who use TC2000 for charting and technical analysis of ETFs, this is a major oversight which does not appear to be a high priority item with TC2000 data. I am just astounded that this issue has not been addressed in all these years!

Again Bruce, this is not to dump on you because your support has been outstanding but I am really dissapointed in this policy because I do really like TC2000 otherwise but the lack of accurate distribution adjusted price data and charting is a deal breaker for me. I really hate to go through the exercise of learning another software charting program but I have no choice. My systems require accurate distribution adjusted price charts and unfortunately TC 2000 does not offer this. Thanks again and take care!

Charles

Thanks again for the feedback. Hopefully it will contibute to getting dividend adjustments added to TC2000 version 12.2.