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Joined: 12/18/2008
Posts: 150
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BUY
aapl
coms
dxo
hd
rimm
SELL
abt
blud
pcg
typ
wm
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Registered User
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 889
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I look forward to seeing your videos to understand your rationale on these trades. Looking at just charts I don't see it. In fact if I had to decide on these particular stocks I would have probably reach nearly opposite conclusions!
Maybe you could even go through a couple of these an explain why you see it as a buy or sell in this thread.
Thanks,
b
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Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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I think folks are gonna be surprised.
Thanks
diceman
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Joined: 12/2/2004
Posts: 1,775
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QUOTE (ben2k9) I look forward to seeing your videos to understand your rationale on these trades. Looking at just charts I don't see it. In fact if I had to decide on these particular stocks I would have probably reach nearly opposite conclusions!
Just thinking the same thing Ben. Some of the long picks that I glanced at show charts that give off strong negative signals, such as high volume breakdowns, prices falling below key support levels, red BOP, falling MS, etc, etc.. Good example imo is ICE.
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Joined: 12/18/2008
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in due time, theyll show up in the videos but just to explain a few things that separates institutional traders from others is that institutional traders are relentless with their positions while others are sitting on the sidelines and watching. its a completely different game where everything is more precise and direct rather than generalized
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Joined: 7/1/2008
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Great, so I'll be looking forward to the precise and direct rationale for why you made these picks, and how you trade them.
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Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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Oh-oh, I feel the tensions mounting -- better get those videos done quick! :)
Also, I think we can make an important distinction here, that the words "institutional" and "successful" are not interchangable.
WSE, you seem successful from everything I've seen, but you can't tell me that some of the institutional traders you work with or have worked with don't get it wrong. Also, being relentless with a position, I assume, would only be important with a certain style of trading. Not all trades require one to be relentless. Some require the opposite.
Also, as an institutional investor I'm guessing (completely guessing so help fill in the blanks please) that you're working on strict monthly performance parameters? Whereas a trend trader could ride out say a 30% drawdown. Also, you guys HAVE to trade, right? There's really no such thing as sitting in cash. Is that true?
Just thinking out loud and asking questions.
At any rate, slap the A-Team theme song on there and get to postin! You know those movie trailers that see for a great movie and then after you see this line:
Coming to a theatre near you...Summer 2012...
Awwwwwwww, man!
David John Hall
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Joined: 12/18/2008
Posts: 150
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haha.. well of course we get it wrong too.. also the strategies used varies from trader to trader.. when i trade, i trade using 4 different strategies when it comes to day trading or 3 strategies when it comes to swing trading...
today i day traded SPY on a 5 min chart and placed 14 trades and was profitable on 10 of the 14
i also day traded AAPL on a 15 min chart and was profitable 4 of 4 trades
there arent exactly performance parameters... but when i was working for institutions, they 'prefer' that you make 10+ opening trades per day depending on how you trade
if you're a wall trader, liquidity trader, scalper, or shaver... then youre constantly trading something
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Thanks WSE -- that's great info! Nice trades as well.
David John Hall
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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I was (am) short RIMM, long term with options. When I saw these picks, I put in an order to liquidate my position. Then I watched the futures drop last night (morning EST) and decided to cancel my order. RIMM did have an up day but closed down from the previous day. So now, what should I do? I know you said your trades were one week at the most, do you look long term or just short term? Also, thank you so much for posting these. I am looking forward to getting back to the states so I can follow these closer.
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Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 170
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its a bit of a tough call with rimm right now.. it looks like its in limbo but more for the downside.. how i would play it is to use $72 as a stop if youre long... if it closes down at all, i would short it
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Joined: 8/19/2009
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sorry all, forgot to mention this is my new name
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Joined: 7/1/2008
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QUOTE (hiromj) I was (am) short RIMM, long term with options. When I saw these picks, I put in an order to liquidate my position. Then I watched the futures drop last night (morning EST) and decided to cancel my order. RIMM did have an up day but closed down from the previous day. So now, what should I do? I know you said your trades were one week at the most, do you look long term or just short term? Also, thank you so much for posting these. I am looking forward to getting back to the states so I can follow these closer.
that's why it's counter productive to trade someone else picks without knowing the rationale and trade setup.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for life.
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Joined: 6/6/2005
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Amen to that, ben!
To paraphrase Livermore:
If you rely on someone to buy then you have to rely on them to sell. What happens when the guy who told you to buy goes on vacation and you hvae no idea when to sell.
I think you can learn a lot by following someone in the beginning of your career, but I don't think I would ever put real money on it. Just my opinion.
David John Hall
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Joined: 8/19/2009
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im watching some videos right now that someone told me to take a look at.. its funny how this guy trades... you all may have heard of him or seen his commercials on cnbc
(external link removed by moderator)
i think he's funny because he's attempting to trade like a liquidity trader mixed with a momentum trader which makes no sense especially when he's trying to appeal to people who have little capital or just trying to learn.. in one of his videos he mentions that the style shown is the method everyone must learn and 'master' first... even if you had a $50k account its impractical
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oops.. i hit post..
anyway i posted the link to the site with a bunch of his free videos if you wanted to see anything to keep yourself entertained
right now watching the market, may get on the short side of AAPL on the 15 min chart
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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QUOTE (davidjohnhall) Amen to that, ben!
To paraphrase Livermore:
If you rely on someone to buy then you have to rely on them to sell. What happens when the guy who told you to buy goes on vacation and you hvae no idea when to sell.
I think you can learn a lot by following someone in the beginning of your career, but I don't think I would ever put real money on it. Just my opinion.
David John Hall
I had a reply written for this post but decided it would be better to let it be and not post it. I do not pretend to be a great trader and I do not "follow" anyone. But, I do respect intothetrade's opinion as he is light years ahead of me. When he posts, it's worth my while to take a close look.
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Hi hiromj,
No need to censor yourself -- we're all posting opinions here. If yours is in direct oposition to mine that's perfectly alright. I'm not sure if/why you took offense to the word "follow". i said there's a lot to be learned at the beginning of your career when following a successful traders trades. I still "follow" the market. In fact I'm a trend "follower".
I think we've all heard of traders taking another's picks and getting nailed. The only thing Ben was saying is that it's wise to see what's under the hood before you take the car out for a spin.
And, in my opinion, it's impossible to "take a closer look" when the details haven't been posted. Once again, just my opinion.
David John Hall
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Joined: 7/1/2008
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hiromj,
it's not about pretending, it's about learning. You SHOULD learn from WSE. I'd like to learn from WSE.
But if you had a trade planned out, you shouldn't cancel it just because someone else is doing their own trade in a different direction. For all you know, he was day trading it. Maybe your trade was a swing or position trade.
My only point, and DJH's point, which we both learned from Livermore (and I'm sure the hard way by losing money) is that you can't blindly follow someone else's stock ideas. Once WSE explains the details of the trade and you understand all of it, only then should you trade them. Otherwise, like DJH said, maybe WSE already blew out of the trade and you're still holding on to it and losing money because you didn't know he was only looking for a point, or that he was going to sell if it closed below yesterdays low, or any number of possibilities.
If you haven't yet, you simply must read "reminiscents of a stock operator" the life of Jesse Livermore.
----
To WSE: it would be much appreciated if you would elaborate on your long/short ideas next time you post them. I'm very interested to learn more about your style, as I'm sure others are. But just posting the stocks doesn't help much.
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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Sorry Ban and David,
No offense taken. I must have been in the wrong mood when I posted.
Mike
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and I'm sure the hard way by losing money--
You got that right, Ben!
And no worries, hiromj, I've had those days too.
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I have yet to encounter anybody else, anywhere, who does not love the book about Jesse Livermore. Therefore, to provide what will probably be the only dissenting opinion, I will state: in the end, after everything he supposedly learned, didn't the guy go bust and kill himself? :)
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LOL Mark, yes he did kill himself.
But so did Hemmingway but it doesn't make his contribution to humanity any less valuable. A lot of brilliant people are unfortunately troubled as well. As the saying goes, there's a fine line between genius and insanity.
It's widely known that Livermore suffered from clinical depression. This causes an acute sense of joylessness. Livermore did not blow his brains out because he lost money. Amazingly, his last letter to his wife stated that he felt like a failure. After all of his accomplishments, feeling like a failure falls in line with what I know of clinical depression.
Also, I have seen Livermore standing in front of mansions and having access to bank accounts I have yet to have access to. In the end, if all i learn from the Livermore book is to make a fortune, hold onto it for a few years, live the good live and then lose it -- then I think I would be 99.9% okay with that.
Livermore's talk is also a cautionary one. by his own admition he did not follow his rules all of the time. When he did he made a great deal of money. I am supposing when the depression had hold of him it might have been difficult.
David John Hall
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Joined: 8/19/2009
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Good to see your comments .. i would also recommend stocks daily from the buying point of view
Buy stocks
chl
ande
aro
c
hban
hibb
wmk
cyn
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Joined: 8/19/2009
Posts: 7
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Todays top pick of the day are
hibb
wmk
spar
bhi
adm
dcp
tsys
afam
c
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Joined: 6/11/2005
Posts: 15
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The part of "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" I liked best, was the analysis before the trade, as in when the railroads where disrupted ... It was great read, hard to put down and Paul the author has done a great job of getting into Jesse's head to tell the story.
The analysis reminded me of the way Jim Rogers ( the one who was #2 in the Quantum Fund with Soros) thinks of the interrelationship of all markets, way out of my league.
-Jay
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Joined: 7/1/2008
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jkelkar - there's a great book on this topic
Intermarket relationships by John Murphy
check it out, and you'll graduate to a new league
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