Registered User
Joined: 7/1/2008
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(external link removed by moderator)
This was predictable.
I give this man a standing ovation.
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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Good for him !!!
I understand that UBS and Deutchebank have picked up about 10 of them ...
Like I said ... the US is currently exporting intellect ...
While the idiots that made these decisions have often been allowed to keep their jobs ...
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Registered User
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 889
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UBS and DB are going to be the biggest benefactors of all this. I hope politicians are aware of what they've done, and I hope it hurts them badly in the end.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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How true:
I'm sure that many good people at these financial institutions were completely innocent of the subprime mess.
The bigger question I want to know, who all were involved, people knew what was happening, knew what was going to happen. What should be done to them? They cost thousands of people, millions of dollars, or is it millions of people, billions of dollars.
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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QUOTE (johnlc)
They cost thousands of people, millions of dollars, or is it millions of people, billions of dollars.
But that's just it John ... these people didn't sham the taxpayers ... the government did ...
We have had a system in place to take care of failed financial instituions since the Great Depression ...
The govt should have guaranteed the depositors ... as they were innocent ... and taken over the financial institutions ... sorted it all out ... and sold it all off ...
The govt has perpetrated the largest "heist" of the taxpayers in the history of the world ...
They've poured TRILLIONS into these banks ... allowed the wrong-doers to keep their jobs ... AND their fat paychecks ... and they're not done ... not by a longshot ...
And worst of all ... they've left our grandchildren holding the bill for the whole thing ...
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Reality you have it all wrong. John is right not you. The government failed us with weak poicies but it was the financial insitutions that robed us all blind. Hohandy is correct. You are blind.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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the banks are not holding a gun to the federal governments head, saying give us trillions or else. the federal government is willingly handing the "corporate welfare" over, against the will of the people. the big banks, the federal reserve, and washington politicians are all complicit in this "good ole boy" network. the banks are being bailed out with taxpayer dollars, yet i've heard very little about correcting what caused the mess.
the federal reserve was created to oversee banking. fine job they did. lol.
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Registered User
Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 214
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Why is it that everyone can see thru this gov smoke screen except apsll?
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Registered User
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 267
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The subprime excuse is just that, an excuse. This mess was not caused by the subprime, it was all well orchestrated preplanned robbery. And yes, there was (and still is) a gun being held to the Federal government's head. They were threatened that the Dow would drop 3000 points in one day (and more the next) if the government didn't vote for the bills hand over the money. Furthermore, the politicians that voted for these bills had literally only hours to read them (most over a 1000 pages). Would you vote for something that you had no idea what it contained? Why did they? It's all in an effort to create an new global supercurrency and the creation (already done) of the New World Bank. It's all happening very fast. Global warming? Another excuse designed for the creation of a new Carbon Tax.
Anyone with an extra two hours on their handes may want to watch "The Obama Deception" By Alex Jones. It's on YouTube
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Funnymony, the banks played a small role in all this. The biger players like insurance companies and Wall Street crooks are not regulated and there for were free to fleece and they did so it seems without repercussions. The government has no choice but to bail them out on some level; what is the alternative? A complete collapse of our economy. Yes the government failed us but they did not turn these financial mogules into crooks and scammers. I believe that they should form a commity and hunt down these evil doers and throw away the keys. If it means un-seating a few politicians then so be it..
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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i guess it'll soon be time to move on to the next bubble.
and what will that bubble be?
i'd say don't sell your gold.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 267
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Here is the next bubble and, belive me, it won't be pretty.
(external link removed by moderator)
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Registered User
Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 214
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Be careful apsll, or you will get another thread locked.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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I've posted this quote here, oh, perhaps, a dozen times over the last several years. I don't recall ever getting even a comment on it. Odd, maybe, now, someone will notice it....
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.
Please don't be so foolish as to think we have not reached, at least, one of the two final stages. It is very, very sad. Keep on, if you like; many are this board pooh-poohed warnings in the past saying that we had seen difficulties before and always rebounded.
I don't think some of you understand where we are. And that's the real tragedy...because that and only that is what has allowed all of this to happen. The true government of this land, you and I, have been slumbering at our post. It's time to wake up and be prepared for the next phase.
Blame others all you want, if that makes you feel better. But have a hard look in the mirror. There, you've found the culprit.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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Second line of the first paragraph after the quote; I meant to say, "...many on this board..."
Sorry.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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I thought that the fall was due to the subprime fiasco, where people could no longer afford their mortage payments because of variable interest rates. That the government passed legislation to allow people to get mortgages that were beyond their means. Which is a part of our society, so that everyone is equal. So all these financial institutilons did was hand out all this money that the government allowed. Could these institutions have been more responsible? Of course. But once one starts making tons of money by easy lending then others will follow. That's just my uninformed opinion.
Yes the bad thing is we all have to pay eventually!!
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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I thought that the fall was due to the subprime fiasco, where people could no longer afford their mortage payments because of variable interest rates. That the government passed legislation to allow people to get mortgages that were beyond their means. Which is a part of our society, so that everyone is equal. So all these financial institutilons did was hand out all this money that the government allowed. Could these institutions have been more responsible? Of course. But once one starts making tons of money by easy lending then others will follow. That's just my uninformed opinion.
Yes the bad thing is we all have to pay eventually!!
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Registered User
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 267
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QUOTE (tobydad) I've posted this quote here, oh, perhaps, a dozen times over the last several years. I don't recall ever getting even a comment on it. Odd, maybe, now, someone will notice it....
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.
Please don't be so foolish as to think we have not reached, at least, one of the two final stages. It is very, very sad. Keep on, if you like; many are this board pooh-poohed warnings in the past saying that we had seen difficulties before and always rebounded.
I don't think some of you understand where we are. And that's the real tragedy...because that and only that is what has allowed all of this to happen. The true government of this land, you and I, have been slumbering at our post. It's time to wake up and be prepared for the next phase.
Blame others all you want, if that makes you feel better. But have a hard look in the mirror. There, you've found the culprit.
This is in line with the link that I attached.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 267
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QUOTE (johnlc) I thought that the fall was due to the subprime fiasco, where people could no longer afford their mortage payments because of variable interest rates. That the government passed legislation to allow people to get mortgages that were beyond their means. Which is a part of our society, so that everyone is equal. So all these financial institutilons did was hand out all this money that the government allowed. Could these institutions have been more responsible? Of course. But once one starts making tons of money by easy lending then others will follow. That's just my uninformed opinion.
Yes the bad thing is we all have to pay eventually!!
The government pushed the banks into lending the money to people that could not afford it under the umbrella of discrimination. But, the main problem is that people "expected" that their home values would rise. In fact, some people in California "expected" that their homes would rise 10% per year. They knew what they were signing but thought their homes would bail them out. It used to be that people needed a job to buy a home, but it came to the point that people didn't need a job anymore as their homes appreciation were out pacing their incomes. Lose your job? No problem, just buy a second house (see Peter Schiff). So, how long was this expected to continue? The government caused this mess and the government is now blaming everybody it can (see the "I quit AIG" memo in the New York Times).
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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QUOTE (tobydad)
Blame others all you want, if that makes you feel better. But have a hard look in the mirror. There, you've found the culprit.
Truer words have never been spoken ....
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 Gold Customer
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 359
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Tobydad: I could not agree more. Nobody reads history, or learns anything from it.
The old observation that" People are to dumb to govern themselves" seems to be holding true, even here.
In many respects, we Americans are the worse. We had it all. And now we are throwing it away every day. or every time Congress meets.
We can no longer solve problems (energy, drugs, our borders)
We have lost, long ago, any sort of national outrage (After Pearl Harbor, Spruance was asked what he would do........."Senator, when I am finished, the Japanese Language will be spoken only in Hell" Where are leaders like that now?. Now , after 911, the guards of terrorists got in deep doo-doo becaused they let the dog bark at a convict!! Media is all over it. Media seems to have missed the beheadings on the Web by Terrorists. Or perhaps they were afraid it would put the Muslims in a bad light, or give terrorism a bad name. Perhaps that was something "The Public didn"t have a right to know"
We do not have the brass to wage war. They must all be won in a week, with no expense, and certainly no inconvenience. Bush was roundly ridiculed for his statement on the aircraft carrier 'The war is won" or whatever he said to that effect. We are still fighting the war?? Against Saddam?? No, son. His army is now working with us, for cat's sake! Even the newspapers reported that"
Ther shape of one mans opinion
Mammon
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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QUOTE (tobydad) I've posted this quote here, oh, perhaps, a dozen times over the last several years. I don't recall ever getting even a comment on it. Odd, maybe, now, someone will notice it....
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.
Please don't be so foolish as to think we have not reached, at least, one of the two final stages. It is very, very sad. Keep on, if you like; many are this board pooh-poohed warnings in the past saying that we had seen difficulties before and always rebounded.
I don't think some of you understand where we are. And that's the real tragedy...because that and only that is what has allowed all of this to happen. The true government of this land, you and I, have been slumbering at our post. It's time to wake up and be prepared for the next phase.
Blame others all you want, if that makes you feel better. But have a hard look in the mirror. There, you've found the culprit.
thats the reason our government was created as a "republic" not a "democracy." to avoid mob rule.
i don't think the public is particularly happy with either party right now.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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It frightens me how few people even understand the difference, you know, between a republic and a democracy. Certainly, very few care. As long as all is comfortable for them, they wonder why they should exercise the effort to find out.
This is the crux of the explanation of why I, though clearly not happy with the party these days, have to lean toward being Republican. It's not because of individual decisions or policies so much as it is the basis of the parties; one believes in the rule of law, the other believes in the rule of people.
I'll take the rule of law.
Mammon, yes, sadly, we have too much fear of inconvenience and loss these days.
Blessings to all; keep standing for what is right in your communities. Perhaps it is not to late to make a difference.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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QUOTE (tobydad) It frightens me how few people even understand the difference, you know, between a republic and a democracy.
Blessings to all; keep standing for what is right in your communities. Perhaps it is not to late to make a difference.
kind of interesting, i was listening to bob brinker a few weeks ago, and a caller tried to explain why the usa was not a democracy, and brinker went absolutely ballistic, and cut the caller off before he could explain.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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Amazingly, I've heard reportedly conservative people referring to our nation as a democracy. The best explanation I know for our nation is a democratic republic. We were intended to be ruled by laws while individual producing citizens were to have a choice as to who would implement those laws.
Note that I did not say "make" laws; rather govern the implementation of fixed and immutable laws of nature and nature's God (as so said the founders).
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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QUOTE (agm32) Be careful apsll, or you will get another thread locked.
Over on another thread, someone stated that too much politics was being "talked" about and not enough about trading compared to 3 or 4 years ago. Well 3 or so years ago all anyone had to do was come with just about any method as long as it would pertain to uptrends and over time unless you used the method on some doggey dog stock, the method was going to work given enough time.
Now with the government's (extreme) intervention into the financial sector, politics play a huge role in wall street.
I think political discussions are as helpful at this time as anyone discussing trading methods. Maybe someone knows of news or has insights of what is going on in D.C. that may be helpful to all of us.
Don't forget those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Thanks to Tobydad for the excellent post!!!
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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All you need to know is in the charts. If the markets are going down then the Bears should have just as many techniques for shorting as I do for going long. There are now Bear ETF's that cane be traded long. There is no lack of technicals just because the political landscape is now being groomed by the Democrats.
Tobydad is a good man I have always thought so. I do not share his politics or his religion, but we do have similar trading styles and we are friends.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 267
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QUOTE (hiromj) Here is the next bubble and, belive me, it won't be pretty.
(external link removed by moderator)
I don't understand. Why are some links removed and others are not?
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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i agree. that link sounded interesting.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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QUOTE (hiromj) QUOTE (hiromj) Here is the next bubble and, belive me, it won't be pretty.
(external link removed by moderator)
I don't understand. Why are some links removed and others are not?
instead of putting a link in your posts, just type out the url, like this: whereever dot com.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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Cmon, apsll, you know better than to say it's all in the charts. Plus i never mentioned republicans or democrats. I was talking about good or bad news effecting the market. It is a big factor every day. I think most would agree that the current surge is somewhat due to a shift in politics. Whether the policies being made now will help or hurt in the long run, we do not know. But every bit of news out of D.C. has volatile effects on the market.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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agm: Sorry to inform you, but the liberals are not DESTROYING AMERICA, they have already done so. You know the old saying, "bend over and kiss your arse goodbye". GOING , GOING, GONE.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Sorry John but you are wrong on many fronts. Do and think what you will. It is your money.
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Registered User
Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 214
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John is right on all counts. Thanks for the info John.
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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QUOTE (agm32) John is right on all counts. Thanks for the info John.
Of course he is ....
Ignorance is bliss ...
And it's not hard to spot the happiest guy in the US of A ...
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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I am not sure John wich America you are refering to that has been destroyed. The America I live in is on the mend after the conservatives just trashed it over the last eight years and now they are blaming Obama for Bushes mess. This is fodder for Saterday Night Live. And John; just between you and I. You are either making money or you are not. Only you know the answer to that. Think about it.
The mending process is going to take a long time. If you are making money in the markets then you should love America for giving you that opportunity.
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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QUOTE (Apsll) If you are making money in the markets then you should love America for giving you that opportunity.
And if you are making money in foreign equities ... because the current administration is trashing the USD ...
Who should you "love" then ??
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Registered User
Joined: 3/6/2009
Posts: 78
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apsll has it wrong again. America has been destroyed by obama. Your are right RC, Ignorance is bliss
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Reality, love what ever force you derive your income from, where ever you butter your bread. Take care of your family and your friends. That is what defines your life. You are right ignorance is bliss. I am blissfully ignorant to a falling sky because I have taken steps to assure that it does not fall on me. Obama inherited these problems, now he is trying to fix them. If he fails then someone else will get their chance. I state my opinions based on what I read and hear like everyone else. My comments to John are strictly Market related.
Dryfess I am sure is not really a new member just a reincarnation of a bitter one. I will continue to post my opinions because that is all that they are "Opinion". It does not bother me that John has joined the ranks of the un educated traders; he fits right in like a glove. I come here to discuss technical analysis and maybe I should stick to that and leave my politics out of it. And to answer the famous four (now five), I do not need you to validate my technical skills. The fact that I make money and have a host of professional friends that trade the same way as I do is good enough for me.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Take care all and good luck.
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