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Joined: 10/7/2004
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I played around with TradeGuider to get a feel fot it. Just from reading the user manual, it looks to be made for you. This copy is the EOD version. Is that what you ordered? He gets his data from TC >> smart export >> MetaStock, which is limited to 255 items. I will check it out more when I have more time. When do you expect to receive your copy?
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Booker, I too have taken a tour on how to use the product (the very basics) I am getting the end of Day version because in about 5 Months or so I will be taking my Bosses job and my day trading days will be over until I retire. He is retiring in 5 or 6 months and he does less work than I do, but he has to be visable, right now and for the last few years I have not. When he leaves they are going to combine my job and his into one job and I am the one left holding the bag. It will be a higher salary, but in a way less money from the markets.
Anyway I ordered it 2 day express. I thought that it would be here on Friday but it did not come so I am hoping for Tuesday. I need to learn how to use it proficiently before I take on my new responsabilities. Then I will only be able to post at night.
I cannot remember what company the data feed comes from but it was not either of those. I will know for sure in a couple of days.
I want to work closely with you on this, because I think that it fits both our styles, kind of like a bridge between us. I paid $995 for the EOD version and they will be sending me the June 1rst upgrade for free. I guess that on June first they are launching the new version for $1,200 so I am saving some money..
Look foward to all this stuff and working with you (If you are interested)..
Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/26/2005
Posts: 238
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Maybe this is a stupid question but since Tradeguider uses the same EOD data as TC, why can’t we just replicate the VSA scans or similar the show the smart money moves?
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Apsll, from what I saw, it looks like the perfect connection to VSA and it would fit yours and my trading style very well. You can use any third party data feed that is able to supply EOD data in MetaStock or CompuTrac format and TC just happens to do that however it is limited to 255 items. I'm not sure why TC has those limits other than it must output in 8 bit format, because 2 to the 8th power is 256. You can just have TG search your hard drive and it will find the stored MetaStock data regardless of the data provider. The RT version uses eSignal or RealTick I believe. Since eSignal has gotten expensive and the quality is not very good anymore and I have never been impressed with RealTick, one can use QCollector (about $75) and it will receive data from DTN IQFeed (which I use now) and store RT data on the fly to one's hard drive if one ever decided to use RT for TG.
That's what I have discovered so far as I have only kicked the tires and have not raised the hood yet. I have access to TG whenever I wish (I think he is trying to get me hooked), and will do just that, time permitting. The manual and program help looks to be far superior to the pdf file I posted. So in a nutshell, I think you will like it
allenbary, I suppose you could do that but TG takes all the work out of VSA and charts all you need to know to make decisions. It would probably be a better task for Blocks but would require a lot of programing.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/26/2005
Posts: 238
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True, time is money. it will be interesting to know if it wirks out Apsll
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Registered User
Joined: 10/26/2005
Posts: 238
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True, time is money. it will be interesting to know if it works out Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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allenbary, on second thought, why not? good idea. If we all put our heads together, we should come up with some scans that should work for all of us. Maybe we could entice our good friend diceman to help with the code. whatta say guys?
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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"Maybe we could entice our good friend diceman to help with the code. whatta say guys?"
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It would all depend if they are telling you why the signals are there and
how they are being triggered. (exactly)
Of course if they are not explained. It could be speculated why they are happening.
Thanks
diceman
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Registered User
Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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They are going to be using proprietary indicators...they need you to need their software. and they have several VSA based indicators as I understand... considered it myself ages ago.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Booker, Diceman and Allenbary: You can convert the sofware code over to metastock code using Telachart Databank Smart Export function. Booker you must have been looking at the amount of days to update the indicatoers, because in the information I read pertaining to using Telachart for the EOD data feed, you will have access to all stocks. Not just 255.
Also there are over 100 specially designed indicators (that I am sure that they do not share how they are constructed) with this program along with pre-fabed Templates and the flexability to design your own as well. Thomas Williams himself designed most of the indicators and they work based on his interpretations of how smart money accumulates and distributes their shares. They have features for support and resistance shaded areas and you simply have to look at the indicators when price is nearing the shaded areas.
There is a lot more to the program wich I will be glad to share once I am proficient with it.
Allenbary you can get EOD data from free sites (Bigcharts.com) that does not mean that you can construct the Tom wiliams indicators with just having EOD information. To be honest with you I am not even sure what you were attempting to say in your posts above?
Tellachart will only be supplying the end of day data in a metastock code, and no formating or use of the telachart system in any way.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/26/2005
Posts: 238
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Apsll, What I mean is if all they are using is price and volume for their indicators, we should be able to come close to replicating them is TC or Blocks. Both excel at these creating these types of indicators. If they incorporate IV, put/call ratio or one of my favorites expensive calls or others then it cannot be done.
It is true their indicators are proprietary but the concept is not. AB
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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AB, Sorry did not mean to take a tone with you. I have already attempted to replicate some indicators in my VSA threads concerning price and volume. but the more I learn about VSA the more I see how much more I need to learn. I do not understand Blocks well enogh to know if this can be done., but I feel more comfortable using the indicators created by the person who created the software and has been a member of a smart money syndicate. Just as we trust the Wordens to use their proprietary indicators. $995 dollars is a drop in the bucket for me. Even if the software were garbage and I threw it in the garbage can I would not lose any sleep over it. It is like buying a stock. I am willing to risk $995 if it has the potential to net me much more down the road.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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QUOTE (Apsll) Booker you must have been looking at the amount of days to update the indicatoers, because in the information I read pertaining to using Telachart for the EOD data feed, you will have access to all stocks. Not just 255.
I was refering to this statement that is displayed
Note:Due to the limits of this file format, only the first 255 items in the Watchlist will be exported.
I take that to mean 255 items, not days to export. Am I not reading that right?
As far as constructing scans, I see no problem using the documentation to figure out how the indicators work. It states exactly how, why and when we use volume as a buy condition and also how to detect weakness for a sell condition. Granted we can not use all of them, but enough to do the job.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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TC2000®
TC2000 supply both EOD data and stock scanning (prospecting) software. TC2000 supply 15 years of data with the following specifications:
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9000+ Stocks
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Industry Group Averages
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Fundamentals
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Indexes
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Scan Rankings
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Sort Rankings
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Symbol Changes
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New Issues
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Industry Group Components
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Personal Criteria Values
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Market Indicators
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Stock Splits
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The data can be converted to MetaStock format by choosing Smart Export to MetaStock from the DataBank menu in the TC2000 software
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Tradeguider has a list of venders that will convert the end of day data to Metastock. TC2000 being one of them on the list and this is what the listing looked like. They also gave a phone number for me to call, so I will get to the bottom of all this.
We cannot figure out how TSV, BOP, or Money Stream work here on this site. But I am sure that there will be plenty of info and indicator construction to share as I learn. All our answers will soon be answered my friend. Believe me I am looking foward to this as much as you are.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Apsll, "all stocks" is the name of the watchlist. I am not sure that TG can help you on this, as this is an item limit in TeleChart. I don't think that number days is a problem. It would be easier to call TeleChart support on this.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Booker I will do exactly that tomorrow.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Booker I ran the transfer and all 7,648 items whent into the MetaStock folder under Telachart /User/MetaStock. I then right clicked on properties of the folder and all 7,648 stocks whent in there (the file used 18MB) that could be costly to my ROM every day, I wonder how that works? If the new files over-wright the old files...
I do not know why it works different on your system?
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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It might be because you exported to "TC2000 Ver 3" instead of "MetaStock".
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Apsll, It seems that this same subject has been posted before.
www.worden.com/training/Default.aspx
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Booker, I decided instead of all this fuss to go directly with the EOD feed data directly from EQUIS the yearly fee is only $240. Do not fret, I will always use Telachart and this forum as my main focuss for my Technical Analysis and camaraderie.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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PS: I just bought back into BONT at a much lower price than I sold it at last time (for a loss) at $6.97 Real close to the swing low and support level from January and Feruary. This is a very low risk entry (IMO)....
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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QUOTE (Apsll) Booker, I decided instead of all this fuss to go directly with the EOD feed data directly from EQUIS the yearly fee is only $240. Do not fret, I will always use Telachart and this forum as my main focuss for my Technical Analysis and camaraderie.
That's probably a smart thing to do. It's a shame you can't use all of the TC data 'cause it's known to be good clean data. But Equis data is probably just as good and you can do without the hassle.
By the same token, how many stocks will you have in your watchlist? I use a scan to weed out stocks I would not want to trade and ended up with 246 in my watchlist. So that would fall under the 255 limit anyway. Do you use all stocks as your watchlist?
I wish there was an edit button. Everytime I see TradeGuider misspelled on the thread name it reminds me of a Harley Davidson.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Booker, I have many different easyscans and most of them after being filtered by price and volume requirments are well over 255 charts. Other-wise you are correct that I would not have a need to seek another format.
The other forum that Myself, Scott and Memorableproduct frequent does have an edit feature, and a lot of good folks. I wish I could post the site but you know it would get removed.
I wish that you and MP could get along, It is hard to like both of you alot and yet you do not get along.
There is another fellow over on the other forum that might be joining you and I on this VSA project. I told him to register over here (you can post outside sources and hyper-links over there as well). He is a very good fellow. I think that you will like him his name is David.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Hey, how did the spelling get corrected? Must be magic. Ask and you shall receive I guess.
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Registered User
Joined: 4/5/2008
Posts: 173
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Apsll the limit on the latest tradeguider (out in a few days) is 255 SYMBOLS - the old one would use as many as you wish.
I think in ordering Equis you may have goofed and will be asking for a refund - the quotemonkey feed they (Tradeguider) use is $25 a month for EOD
I mentioned in the past that I had used TG for well over a year so could answer many questions you may have had about the TG product. FWIW Tradeguider is NOT the be all and end all product (as the promotors say) but is a tool that is entirely based on Wyckoff . So if you want more knowledge head off and buy the wyckoff course and study like crazy as it is VERY complex and hard to follow.
Regards
Ash
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Oz, I certainly will appreciate any help that you are willing to offer when I am in need of crossing those bridges, thank you for your offer to help. They are sending me the old version first followed by the free update. (no one says I have to update) If you do the math Equis at $240 a year is cheaper than Qoutemonkey at $25 a month and Equis assured me that I would be able to transfer all data on all exchanges both foriegn and domestic as well as futures and forex and mutual-funds (basically everything).
Why did you stop using TG? It was designed by Thomas Williams (a student of the Wyckoff theories). I like the idea of the pre-built indicators and the little diamonds that show when supply is higher than demand and vise-verse. Do you not believe that TG exposes the trading patterns of smart money? And lastely did you actually make any money using the analysis tools in TG?
The 255 symbol limit is all that Telachart can offer. that is why I am going with another vender. Any money that I spend on this venture is worth it to me to see if VSA is for real. I have made or lost as much in one day of trading so I am looking foward to the sdventure ahead of me in learning how to use TG to its full potential.
Again thanks for your offer to help. I just might take you up on it.
Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Hi Oz, It's good to see another Wyckoff system user. We can all use more help defining VSA. I proposed a VSA project earlier based on the works of Wyckoff and Tom Williams using TC as a base.
We can't plot different colored triangles, diamonds and squares near each bar like TG does but we can use different colors with percent true indicators that will suffice. We could use green for the most significant to light green for the least significant and red in the same fashion. The logic for the VSA indicators is well documented and I believe that with a little help from diceman and the trainers that we can produce the same for TC. Using TC's superior sort and scan capabilities, I believe a more efficient VSA system can be built here without the black-box limitations.
Using TeleChart instead of TradeGuider for VSA is kind of like using one monitor vs. using several monitors. It's not as convenient but works. Right Apsll? (Joke)
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Oh, I forgot one more important person.
davidjohnhall, since you have read most of the books, can we count on your help for interpreting the VSA rules?
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Oz, I just found out that you are correct. After talking to Tradeguider the 255 symbol restriction is the same for all vendors. Tradeguider has an agreement with Quotemonkey (now called "Realtime Data ") so I will be going with them and not EQUIS. Tradeguider has changed the code requirments eliminating the need to own the MataStock software, only on the update which they say I will be able to download from their website on June 1rst.
Now that all that is straight, Booker you are correct we need all the top minds for your project. You left one person out that is imperitive. We also need Bustermu, like Diceman he is a math wiz. also Bruce from the worden staff and the team will be complete, they just all have to want to do it. Here is a list of the team. Let me know if I am leaving anyone out.
BOOKER
APSLL
OZASH
DICEMAN
DAVIDJOHNHALL
BUSTERMU
BRUCE_L
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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Apsll,
While I will do everything I can to help you implement Indicators in either TeleChart or Blocks (assuming the Indicators are not proprietary), I really can't help you with third party software.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
TC2000 Support Articles
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Bruce, Bookers intentions are to creat a VSA system using only Telachart tools. It will not involve a third party sofware. Your involvment should you decide to help will be in the way that you have always helped me in the past - to design indicators. I think that this project could be done in blocks and I am not sure that it can be done in telachart, but we are going to find out.
The chalenge that I already forsee is going to be tying in the spread of the bar with where the close is in relation to said bar and the volume activity during that bar. Then how can you use this information in reference to supply and demand, support and resisistance.
Bruce, You are the most qualified right now to tell us if any of this is possible in Telachart as I am sure that none want to waste their time?
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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Apsll,
I'm actually not sure from reading the thread and your most recent question. We can find where the Close is in relation to the Bar Range fairly easily. "Volume activity during that bar" could be more problematic (even in Platinum) if it involves some sort of intraday Volume instead of end of day Volume (it pretty much can't be done without intraday data of some sort - even in Blocks).
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
TC2000 Support Articles
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Bruce this would be end of day data only. So is it possible in Telachart to pursue this?
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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Apsll,
I would think so. That said, I don't know the exact details of what you are attempting to implement. There are certainly things that only use Daily data that are not practical in TeleChart.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
TC2000 Support Articles
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Registered User
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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Hey Booker,
I'm in. I would like to help in any way I can.
David John Hall
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Bruce, what I purpose, goes something like this. suppose hypothetical, we decided that the end of a bear move consisted of a selling climax and we want to design maybe a green percent true indicator to flag this condition.
Selling Climax rules by committee
1. has been in a decline for x days
2. two days ago - large down bar with high volume making a new low
3. one day ago - up day on high volum closing near the high of the day.
4. today - low volume with the close near the high of the day
5. trigger indicator
Understand that this is not a trading rule, but rather a flag to watch for your favorite trading method to go long. I do not believe that trading rules can be made using VSA, but would certainly go a long way in improving our success rate.
thanks David, you are a vital part if we can do this.
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Registered User
Joined: 6/9/2007
Posts: 68
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Apsll, Booker, et al.,
I have been very busy lately with my own research on the Nine Day strategy, but I read this forum daily.
I am very excited about what you all have to say about VSA. I have been a great follower of all the VSA rhetoric and certainly think that it has merit. I would like very much to learn more about your findings.
I am no 'stock wiz' nor 'math wiz' and probably can't help much on your 'team'; but please don't forget us little guys out here.
Please post all your findings in an understandable way (as you have done in the past) for us rookies.
Thanks for all your information.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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David, I plan on back testing these idea's just to see if they would have worked in the past and hope that you will also do some back testing. If they did not work in the past, then there is no reason to assume that they will in the future.
djr, we certainly will post all results. This is a project for all of us.
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