Registered User
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 10
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Do you know where I could find a template of to develop a trading plan?
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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This is not the sort of questions the trainers can answer. I'll move this to the Stock and Market Talk forum where other traders are more likely to see it and comment.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
TC2000 Support Articles
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Registered User
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 10
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thanks
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:"Do you know where I could find a template of to develop a trading plan?"
bcthorn
Not sure what you mean by this question?
I would think:
timeframes
indicators
methods
diversification
money management
would be starting points.
Is this what you are talking about?
Thanks
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Registered User
Joined: 10/26/2005
Posts: 238
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I thing reading the book "come into my trading room" a complete guide to trading, by Alexander Elder, Will be what you are looking for. it was a big help for me. AB
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Registered User
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 10
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Thanks allenbary
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 16
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I have read Elder's books (all excellent) and even attended one of his workshops. He is not nearly as methodical in person as his books would imply.
The point that I would like to emphasize is “discipline.” I have tried many "trading plan" strategies and I have not found any that I have been really happy with. The important thing, however, is to carefully design a strategy that you believe has a positive expectation. You then follow that strategy religiously. You are going to reevaluate your strategy frequently. If you trade frequently, you need to reevaluate every week or so. If you trade less frequently, do the analysis every six weeks or so. When you start evaluating your bad trades, you will wonder “Why did I ever put on that position?” The screen shots and notes about your emotions will help to clear things up.
You must plan every aspect of the trade – selection, setup, entry, and exits. Always make your plan before you enter the trade. Believe it or not, the entry price is only one of the relevant decisions that you will make.
My trading plan begins with the following:
1. Date
2. Emotional notes: Am I focused? Confused? Did I have an argument with my wife? These notes may seem irrelevant but six months from now you will probably wonder why you took certain positions. Reviewing these emotional notes could show you that you were just not focused on the market at the time.
3. An image of the TC2000 chart when you took the position. This should be the chart that made you enter the market.
4. Strategy: What is your strategy? Is this a breakout? A “Pristine Buy Setup”? Whatever --- Just indicate what prompted you do take this position.
One you are in the trade, you must set several exits. The ones that I use are:
1. Target: If everything goes well, under what conditions will I get out? It could be a profit target or it could be signs of a trend reversal. Be precise and be objective. An idiot should be able to tell if your position has reached the target.
2. Stop Loss: How much am I willing to lose? I have a calculated figure for me (between 0.5-2% of my account size). I also consider the average daily fluctuation in price. If the normal daily price swing could cause me to lose more than my maximum acceptable loss, I will not enter that trade. Remember – the deal of the year comes about once a week. You have over 8000 stocks to chose from and you DO NOT have to trade today.
3. Time Target: There is always an opportunity cost to consider. Why tie your money up in a stock that is going nowhere? I will generally give it two weeks. If it hasn’t begun to do what I expect by then, I close the position.
I maintain an Excel spreadsheet where I track daily performance for all of my equity positions. It is a simple spreadsheet with the following information:
Date, Symbol, Sector
For the date I open the position, I record:
Open, High, Low, Close, Volume, Number of Shares Purchased, Cost/share, Total Amount, Reward/Risk Ratio
I then use Excel to calculate:
Max Loss, Stop Loss, Break even, Target, Reward: Risk Ratio
On the date of the purchase, I record Today’s Close, the point where I will set Trailing Stop.
As the stock moves in my direction, I will adjust the trailing stop. It will be only a few cents each time but this adds up.
I also record my real/paper profits/losses. When I exit a position, I will record the exit price and make a copy of the chart when I made the exit decision. Record more detail than you think that you will need. You can easily erase it if you don’t need it. If you do not record it, you can’t use it later.
Every day, I make the decision about staying in. If the stock has hit my target or stop loss, I will exit. If it is rising, I will set a trailing stop alert at the previous day’s low. Otherwise, I will look at it and decide if the movement shows any potential of going where I want. None of the stocks that I have purchased in the past month ever hit my stop loss. Many, however, did not go the direction that I wanted for two weeks. You must try to remove your emotions from the trade. If you are at all like me, you can do serious damage to your account in short order.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/27/2005
Posts: 10
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excellent thanks
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 264
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Bcthorn,
since you are a platinum member, go join the club Traders Helping Traders. I have posted a very detailed trading plan template that could help you out. Good luck.
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Registered User
Joined: 11/25/2007
Posts: 1
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Bill,
After reading Come into my trading room and exits & entries of Mr Elder, I became enthusiastic about the triple screen method and would like to go into more detail.
Unfortunately I’m currently not in the position to attend one of his trainings camps (probably I will purchase one of the great DVDs) and was delighted to see that you offered to share your notes and handouts made during the training. Those will be very welcome and from great support to have a better understanding of the method, before starting to trade and applying Elder’s method.
Would you please be so kind to email those documents to (email removed by moderator) ?
Thanks in advance and let me know or there is something that you are looking for, maybe I can help.
Paul
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Registered User
Joined: 6/8/2006
Posts: 58
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Hi there
I have just finished reading Stan Weinstein's book Secret's for profiting in Bull and Bear Markets. It was written almost 20 years ago but it seems to be timeless info. He provides a good system and explains how to manage the trade once you are in it. This is something I have always had problems with.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Muniyba
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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bcthorn go and buy the December issue of Technical Analysis of Stocks & Commodities magazine.
On page 48 I think you will find just what you are looking for " The trading plan" by John Morris. Nicely resumed and simple. It will be worth your $5.
Take care.
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Registered User
Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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if you go to their website ... they will give out a free copy.. no Credit info taken. Take a tour of the site and they offer a drawing for a free years subscription.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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i read it. excellent article. just go to a newstand and get it. if u sign up for the trial. they'll send u next months.
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Registered User
Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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Oh poo... I was just in town also and didn't go get it. It's a 40 min drive to the nearest civilization that carries it.
Any key points you could relate?
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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heres an excerpt---- the technical indicators used her are the stoch, macd, rsi. prior to a trigger all must cross in that order. once price pauases on support or resistance, then check to msee the stoch has flattened out, macd histograms bars decreasing in size, rsi has moved in a nnew direction. the trigger itself is a 5ma crossover or a breakout of support or resistance.
other notes
trade with the trend
buy support, sell resistance
be aware of news announcements
price is the leading indicator, followed by trendlines, pivots, ,ma's, fibs, and lastly indicators.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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The thing about trading systems is that one does not understand that manging the trade is the most important aspect of the system. Take a very basic system, lets say the 10 day sma crossing the 20 day sma. Go ahead and look at a bunch of stocks that had some type of a rally and you will say to yourself, wow. But now take one of the best looking scenerios where the 10 day sma crossed over the 20 day sma and scroll back in time to the very first day that the cross over took place.
Now it does not look so obvious does it. where are you going to put your stop loss in case this does not pan out? The volume is low and the indicators do not look so hot. You see the decisions that have to be made even with a good trading system you have to have rules of engagement. Make sure that you are managing Risk make sure that you are managing your Capital Make sure that you are managing the Trade
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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on that chart u had resistance at 9699. since price is the leading indicator, a resistance break of 9699 is the buy trigger, rather than the ma crossover.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Funnymony, The point that I was trying to make had nothing to do with wich trading system would have worked best for my example. My point is that no matter what trading system you use, if you are not aware of what it takes to manage the entire process from selecting the stock to buying the stock to selling the stock then no system in the world is going to work for you.
We all here on this forum represent different stages of experience. I am not the most experienced nor the least. I have failed with some trading sytems and I have succeeded in some trading systems only to have them then fail me. Please do not take Page 48 from the December issue ofstocks and Commodities as the holy grail. I glanced at it and as Bigblock has stated it is a good system to work with, but that is just a blue print. Work with it and let us know when you come across some good candidates. I am just trying to be helpfull.
I will be waiting to see what kind of results you will get. You have just caught the football at mid field now lets see what you can do after the catch...
Good luck.
Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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by all means, carry on.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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What is it that I am supposed to carry on? I was only trying to be helpfull,but it is clear that it is not my brand of help that you are seeking.
Good luck in you trading. Watch out for those speed bumps..
Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 426
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Apsll
That is very good advice but most new traders do not believe it. They see the market with the idea that if I can make money on these stocks, then why not bet the farm on the best one and make a lot of money. They also spend a lot of time looking for the holy grail and think nothing of spending $5000 for a 2 day seminar to learn a voo-doo indicator and end up blowing up thier account.
Anyway, you might ponder that old saying: "There are old traders, there are bold traders, but there are no old, bold traders".
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Thanks for checking in Booker, I wish that you would participate more often. Things are getting strange around here. Hohandy is mad at me because he thinks that I insulted him (not my intention) Bigblock is using so many sign in names I do not know who i am talking with, and the markets are acting like a spoiled brat, and now these platinum newbies think that they have all the answers.
You know when the markets start to head North that you and I are going to have some fun. Maybee we will ask Funnymony for advice...
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Registered User
Joined: 2/5/2006
Posts: 1,148
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apsil-
you are the biggest "windbag" in this forum, and about "halfbaked" most of the time. why don't you go get a life, and quit acting like you own the forum. and no need for you to respond to my posts.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Funny I thought that Bcthorn started this thread. And yes it is very true that I enjoy discussing trading strategies on this forum all day long (thank god Amarica is a free country and I have the right to do so). The latest news is that the Wordens own this web site, you will have to keep up with current events if you wish to have anyone take you serious. My life is actually quite good, but thank you for your concern.
Some on this forum actually ask for my pearls of wisdom. I did not need your approval to insert my advice in the above postings, nor will I seek it in the future. You can either read my advice and actually learn somthing or you can boycott my threads & postings all together, I promise that my feelings will not be hurt.
Thank you and good luck.
Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 6/16/2007
Posts: 4
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Looking for information on parameters for various stock indicators- On my charts I have set up Stochastics,MS,MACD,TSV.Bollinger Bands. I am looking for parameters that will give signals about 3-6 times over a 12 month period. For example I have set my STO at 40,5,10. MACD at short 30 Long 50 Period 5. TSV at 21 bars with MA at 10 baes, and Bollinger bands at 15 bar and 15 SD. I am interested how others have set the parameters and what is most appropriate for a swing trader. I am also interested in how people have set up their charts -especilly with other indicators they find useful.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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You may be interested in this:
Thanks
diceman
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Registered User
Joined: 6/8/2006
Posts: 58
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QUOTE (Apsll) Funnymony, The point that I was trying to make had nothing to do with wich trading system would have worked best for my example. My point is that no matter what trading system you use, if you are not aware of what it takes to manage the entire process from selecting the stock to buying the stock to selling the stock then no system in the world is going to work for you.
Apsll.
How true ApsII! You hit the nail right in the head. I have lost lots of money because I have been unable to do this properly. I spent thousands of dollars on courses, books and so-called mentoring and it was only experience that made me realise this invaluable point. The reason I mentioned Stan Weinstein's book is because he actually shows you how to manage the trade from go to whoa and inbetween.
I think funnmoney's outburst was uncalled for but then I have noticed rude and uncalled for behaviour in many forums recently. Maybe the planets are misaligned or something!
I find your thoughtful and considered posts interesting and helpful. Keep up the good work and take no notice of the hecklers "in the cheap seats".
Cheers
Muniyba
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Please avoid personal attacks and focus on critiques of ideas, if need be.
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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Guys and gales - system or no system. It is your personality what count most. I know folks that trade systems very sucessfully, while others fail on the same systems. I know folks who do not use any system at all - just their hint, their intuition, and they are sucessfull. Put others in their shoes and they melt.
You can never take the human factor completely out of the trade - just not possible no matter how much you try to tell yourself that you can. If if you finally convince yourself of such - you are telling yourself the biggest lie ever.
Everyone needs to try their own things, and walk their own paths, until they find their answer. There are good produtcs out there to help you walk just about any path.
Isn't everyone free to try whatever they wish?
Therefore it is very important to work on yourself. It is often said that if you have any problem whether personal, marital, or else - those will be exponentially amplyfied by the emotions of trading.
Put your things in order, make yourself as ready as you possibly can, and go for it. If you fail there is always a new chance down the road (provide you can come up with the capital).
Life is short don't let any knuckle head tell you how, when, or what - you do it your way.
I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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Great post Bigblock ....
And pretty good advice ....
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Registered User
Joined: 7/28/2007
Posts: 118
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Good evening all,
Been lurking a little but mostly had my head stuck in a training course...completed DVD12 on the TT course yesterday.....
I will have to say APSLL has hit the nail on the head....risk to reward, and money/trade management are the keys to the kingdom...so to speak. You should not trade until you have this in your grasp. And Bigblock makes an excellent point, you will never know what works for you until you do finally jump in and sample ideas....
Fear and Greed rule new traders...this I know, I suspect they will always be there, you just have to know yourself and learn how to control these two very powerful emotions.
Moving along I do want to say that I have learned a lot from 98% of you that have posted in this thread, and I sincerely mean that. It is a bit disheartening to see the bickering that has suddenly erupted. I hope all of you keep posting (for the benefit of all of us newbies) .
Hohandy, I too think you mis-interpreted APSLL's comments in another thread, at least from the way I read it. I hope you keep posting here as well, I have enjoyed conversing with you.
Griz
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Registered User
Joined: 9/13/2006
Posts: 143
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Apsll, I hope you don't get upset by some posts , you are an old timer . I took your advise on trade management very seriously. You inspired me to believe that trading like any business needs a management system that without a sound one it goes down the drain. I have got bits and pieces of it , but haven't been able to put one together yet as a system. Anyway, please keep sharing.
Moe
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Registered User
Joined: 10/26/2005
Posts: 238
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Bcthorn, I am not sure what you are looking for but I believe as a new trader you must develop a set of rules to follow. It helps with the fear and greed aspect. And you never break them or change them while in a trade. That keeps you from forming bad habit that will cost you money. You may need to adjust your rules as the market changes or if you notice a flaw in your trading. Example I use to exit my trades to early for fear of losing my profit so I made a new rule EXIT: IF CHART SHOWS SLOWING MOMENTUM (CROSSES DOWN 8 EMA) I’ve posted this before but here it is again for what it is worth my basic list for trading plan rules, this is more about managing a trade than picking stocks. AB
TRADING PLAN RULES
MARKETS: NYSE NASDAQ AMEX (MUST BE ABOVE 29 WEEK MA)
PRICE RANGE: $ 8.00 T0 $50.00
POSITION SIZE = ENTRY PRICE – INITINAL STOP PRICE / 2% OF ACCOUNT VALUE
STOCKS MUST BE:
TRENDING UP 20, 30, 50 150 MA UP
GOOD QUALITY
RELITIVE STRENGTH MUST BE ABOVE 75
50 DAY VOLUME > 100,000
BROADER MARKET UP, INDUSTRY UP
ABOVE 8 EMS FOR LONGS
STOPS:
MAX LOSS = 2% OF ACCOUNT VALUE
BELOW SUPPORT - .06
MOVE TO BREAK EVEN @ 101.5% of entry price
PROTECT PROFET @ 2%, 5% 10%
EXIT: IF CHART SHOWS SLOWING MOMENTUM (CROSSES DOWN 8 EMA)
TACTICS:
DO NOTHING FROM 9:30 TO 9:40
ENTRY .06 ABOVE CLOSE
IF ENTRY IS HIT BEFORE 9:40 BUY 10:00 HIGH
MARKET NEWS MUST BE GOOD FOR THE DAY (S&P FUTURES-TICK -ECT.)
MUST BE NET POSITIVE
TRADE ONLY IN DIRECTION OF OPENING PRICE SIGNAL
(OPEN + - .25 = O.P.S. + .25 LONG ONLY -.25 SHORT ONLY)
I. WEEKEND PREP
ASSESS MAJOR MARKETS: DOW NASDAQ S&P 500….........
· WHICH MARKETS LOOK GOOD FOR COMING WEEK?
· COMPARE 50 AND 200 MA ON INDEXES
· CHECK BROADER MARKETS IF MAJOR MARKETS OK
II. ASSESS INDUSTRY GROUPS
· LOOK FOR STRONG SECTORS
· LOOK FOR FALLEN ANGELS
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Registered User
Joined: 9/13/2006
Posts: 143
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Thanks AB .
John Noris on TASC magazine talks about 5&5 SMA cross overs, can someone explain how to do pcf for that . I was thinking of AVEC4 and AVGO4.
Also his strategy is for forex and futures. Curious to know how it works on stocks.
Thanks. Moe
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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Apsll - just to clarify this. I had my share of problems with moderators in this board due to a conflict of interest between my products and theirs. Hence the reason for my repeted banning and the need to create new users to continue posting here.
My original name is Bigblock - I think I am the oldest member here (regardless what my profile saids as that has been changed and affected by cancelled memberships, bannings, and God knows what else), the only old timer I see around here, who by the way is from newer generation than me is Petry. I have seem all of you guys come in, as well as I have seem many leave or at least dissapear from posting.
My consequential user names were lBigblock, llBigblock, lllBigblock, llllBigblock ... and so on, I am sure that you get it. The idea was to still let you know who I was.
At the end, that was completelly banned by the moderator and therefore I created Alexandria.
Alexandria allowed all the issues to surface and after discussing some issues with the moderators I was allowed to use my original name Bigblock. And since that is what I have been using.
That is until I break the law again if I do.
But just so it is clear - my user name changes had nothing to do with disguising my identity.
I am who I am and folks around here know my writing. Alexandria didn't get to post more than twice before everybody knew it was actually Bigblock behind those posts.
So when you see Bigblock posting - it is really me - Bigblock.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Bigblock, I think that we both love this forum equally and the good fellows that we share it with. I would like to call a truce and extend to you the proverbial Olive Branch. It is clear that you are not going to go away, and I am not going to go away either. I am lucky that I have a job where I am alone and can play with the internet all day. I am a few years away from retirement, and that is all due to my success with the Stock Market.
You remind me of a cross between Realitycheck and Diceman as far as your over-all knowledge about economics and how it can affect the stock market, Yet they can get their point across without the harsh reality that you feel the need to lay on us. You do not need to sugarcoat your message, but we can do without the vinagar.
Lastly I found your recent analysis to be interesting and I like the way that you presented it. There was no fee involved and you shared freely with us your thoughts. I know that you worked hard for many years on Oasis and do not want to share its secrets for free. I too have worked very hard for my success and I am sure that many more that post here could tell their stories as well. My only wish is that you will abide by the standards that the Wordens have set for this forum, I am in no position to make any demands of you but I would like us all to be one big happy family.
Good luck to you
Apsll.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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I accept your offer Apsll - never had anything against you anyways - lets call a truce, and try to be logical and sincere. There shouldn't be any reason for different of opinions to destroy friendships.
Different of opinions is what makes it interesting.
I admit I am sometimes off tangent, but that has to do with my temperament, and my drive. It has nothing to do with you or anyone else.
I hope both of our opinions or inputs are equally helpful to the members of this board regardless of our perspectives.
Take care
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Registered User
Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 1,506
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