Registered User
Joined: 10/18/2004
Posts: 90
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In the above article, under the topic of TSV, I have a question concerning a comment in the below paragraph.
"One of the new features of this indicator is the ability to calculate a moving average of another moving average. This addition has made TSV more effective and easier to use. Now you can calculate a moving average of an already smoothed TSV and use it much in the same way the MACD indicator is used. Positive and negative TSV crossovers are one more thing to consider when trying to form an opinion on a particular stock or market index."
Can you elucidate a little more re: "Now you can calculate a moving average of an already smoothed TSV and use it much in the same way the MACD indicator is used." especially WRT "the MACD indicator?"
Thanks
Lee
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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leegyoung,
Doug already addressed this in the topic you started here:
TSV Used as a MACD
The following video demonstrates how to take full advantage of the forums:
Learn how to use the forums: post a new topic, reply, Search existing topics
-Bruce
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 4,308
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Lee, this is the same question you posed to me the other day. Did you review my reply?
- Doug
Teaching Online!
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Registered User
Joined: 12/15/2004
Posts: 81
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OK BOP is explained perectly, above 0 is buying below is selling.
The MS and TSV do not provide this simple explaination...in other words.. why are the tsv and ms paramareters and what do they mean.
what is a 25 words or less explanation of divergance...
tks
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Here is how I define divergence:
There are two types of divergences; positive and negative:
Positive Divergence: when the indicator is more positive or less negative than price
Negative Divergence: when the indicator is less positive or more negative than price.
Here are some potiential divergences:
Positive TSV Divergence:
TSV is above zero (regardless of the trend of TSV) while price is moving sideways or down
and/or
TSV is moving up while price is falling or moving sideways. If TSV is above 0 it is more positive than if it is below 0
and/or
TSV moves above a previous high and price fails to break its own previous high for the same time period
...these are just a few examples to get an idea
Negative MS Divergence:
MS is trending down while price is trending sideways or up
and/or
MS exceeds a previous low in MS while price fails to exceed the same previous low in price
...again, just some examples
- Craig
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Registered User
Joined: 1/1/2005
Posts: 2,645
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QUOTE (Craig_S) Positive Divergence: when the indicator is more positive or less negative than price.
Craig,
For someone who is not already familiar with the concept of divergence, the above is quite likely to be interpreted in a fashion not intended. For example, if RSI5.1 is 50 and Price is 25, then RSI5.1 is more positive than Price but that is not indicative of a positive divergence.
Your examples could also be interpreted in a fashion possibly not intended. For example, did you intend that CMS decreasing over the last 60 days and price increasing over the last 5 days be interpreted as a negative MS divergence or must the intervals of increase and decrease be the same?
Thanks,
Jim Murphy
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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I think you are underestimating people.
I think "quite likely" is more then bit much.
Anyone who understands a price graph knows price being 25 does not make it positive unless you compare the 25 to where it has been in the past.
Once you do that you can determine if price is positive or negative... then you can launch into my statement. You underestimate "someone who is not already familiar with the concept of divergence" and thei ability to figure out what I wrote. You are splitting hairs.
I would be surprised if someone were to read either of my statements the way you think.
The "while" in the MS statement implies they happen over the same time period.
Please post your improved versions.
The more information for others to read and learn from, the better.
- Craig
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Registered User
Joined: 1/1/2005
Posts: 2,645
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Craig,
The point of my post was that "positive" has different meanings. Since PROC5 is an Indicator, let's use it as an example. If someone states, "PROC5 is positive" without placing it in context, I do mot know what is meant.
1) He may mean that an input sequence of nonnegative numbers results in an output sequence of nonnegative numbers, in which case I would say that the statement is false.
2) He may have made the statement because he observed that the output value today is 25, in which case I would say that the statement is true, but only because 25 is a positive number.
3) He may have made the statement because he believes the PROC5 pattern portended a price increase, in which case I know what he meant by the statement although I may not conform to his belief.
If one describes an indicator as "positive" in a definition of divergence, then he may as well be using the term out of context for those who do not already have some idea of what a divergence is.
I prefer not to give an imprecise defination, but might suggest considering something like:
A positive divergence is present when the price pattern portends a price decrease and the indicator pattern portends a price increase.
That should be enough to shoot plenty of holds in.
Thanks,
Jim Murphy
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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I'm sure between the two of us we have either cleared everything up for the readers or made it all muddier than a riverbed. I am really good at doing the latter.
- Craig
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Registered User
Joined: 10/27/2005
Posts: 71
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elucidate... is that really a word?
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004
Posts: 9,187
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e·lu·ci·date ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-ls-dt)
v. e·lu·ci·dat·ed, e·lu·ci·dat·ing, e·lu·ci·dates
v. tr.
To make clear or plain, especially by explanation; clarify.
v. intr.
To give an explanation that serves to clarify.
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Registered User
Joined: 3/14/2006
Posts: 23
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Are MS and Price on completely different scales? In other words, one cannot compare the values, only the tendencies (trend) they portray. Is that correct?
Brian
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Price and MS are plotted on their own scales. When you compare the two you shold look at the the patterns, not if one is above/below the other.
You should consider getting the Peter Worden video on MoneyStream available below. it will train you on how to identify strong and weak MS patterns as it relates to price.
Books & Videos
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Registered User
Joined: 3/14/2006
Posts: 23
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Yeah, actually I already called and ordered the one on Money Stream and the one on BOP.
thanks for getting back. 
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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My pleasure!
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Registered User
Joined: 4/12/2006
Posts: 65
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Hi I am so new to the game that OBV is unknown to me. Could you define that for me? Thank You
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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keefie,
From the On Balance Volume section of the Online Help Files:
On Balance Volume (OBV) was developed by Joseph Granville, a well-known technician and market letter writer. It is a cumulative indicator that essentially measures positive and negative volume. It is calculated by adding the total volume on up days and subtracting the volume on down days. The numerical value of OBV is statistically irrelevant, just as it would be with a cumulative advance/decline line. This is because the value of the indicator will be dependent upon when the indicator was first calculated. (i.e. An OBV line started one year ago will look exactly the same over the past year as an OBV line started five years ago, even though the value of the latest plot for each line will be very different.)
With OBV, the key is to look for divergences between price and the OBV line. If both the price and the OBV line are rising, it means that OBV is confirming price, which should be interpreted as bullish. If the price is rising and the OBV line is declining it is bearish. If the price is declining and the OBV line is rising (moving counter-trend to price), it is a bullish indication.
-Bruce
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Registered User
Joined: 3/5/2005
Posts: 6
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In using "C" key to isolate an chart pattern and then after calculation tc2000 finds the same pattern in other stocks. My question is: can a pattern be selected in the historical or past
charts of a company and tc2000 find a similar pattern in charts covering the last 30 to 60 days.
Thanks
Ron Rogers
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Ron,
You are talking about Custom Date Sort which only looks at percent changes, not patterns in price.
You should check out this short video:
Sorting Stocks by their Absolute or Relative Performance
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Registered User
Joined: 6/27/2006
Posts: 7
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Registered User
Joined: 6/27/2006
Posts: 7
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It 's interesting that BOP was not readily recognozed by very experienced TA people and you explain the reason in this posting; it's proprietary. As you know, I am a new user and this information was extremely useful to me. Ironically it confirmed my original interpretation that BOP represents the strength or weakness of any plannned buy or sell.
Thanks Craig this was very helpful
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Glad to hear it. Be sure to read this when you get the chance: Don Worden on the history of BOP and MoneyStream
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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What's wrong with the (BOP1 <= -31) syntax?
Thanks
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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ksoong,
TeleChart views -31 in isolation as subtraction and not as a negative number. Since there isn't anything to subtract it from, it generates an Error in Formula Syntax. There are two primary ways to correct the Syntax Error:
Subtraction:
BOP1 <= 0 - 31
Parentheses:
BOP1 <= ( - 31)
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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Great. Thanks
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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ksoong,
You're welcome.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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Hi guys, I need a big fav
Setting: TSV(26-exp) and its 19-exp moving avg
MS and its 22-exp moving avg
1. PCF that returns True if:
MS is above its 22-exp moving average and TSV(26) crossed above its 19-exp moving average today, OR, TSV(26) is above its 19-exp moving average and MS crosses above its 22-exp moving average today.
2. PCF that returns True if:
MS is below its 22-exp moving average and TSV(26) crosses below its 19-exp moving average today, OR, TSV(26) is below its 19-exp moving average and MS crosses below its 22-exp moving average today.
Thanks in advance
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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QUOTE (ksoong) 1. PCF that returns True if:
MS is above its 22-exp moving average and TSV(26) crossed above its 19-exp moving average today, OR, TSV(26) is above its 19-exp moving average and MS crosses above its 22-exp moving average today.
MS1 > XAVG(MS1,22) AND XAVG(TSV1,26) < XAVG(TSV1,19) AND (MS1.1 < XAVG(MS1.1,22) OR XAVG(TSV1.1,26) > XAVG(TSV1.1,19))
QUOTE (ksoong) 2. PCF that returns True if:
MS is below its 22-exp moving average and TSV(26) crosses below its 19-exp moving average today, OR, TSV(26) is below its 19-exp moving average and MS crosses below its 22-exp moving average today.
MS1 < XAVG(MS1,22) AND XAVG(TSV1,26) > XAVG(TSV1,19) AND (MS1.1 < XAVG(MS1.1,22) OR XAVG(TSV1.1,26) < XAVG(TSV1.1,19))
-Bruce
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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You're the true PCF King. Thanks a lot
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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You're welcome.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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Bruce,
It seems to me that these PCFs don't work well on realtime chart, say hourly chart, why?
Thanks
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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All PCFs are based on daily (downloaded) data. Changing the time per bar of your chart has no effect on your PCFs or EasyScans.
You can plot any of the formulas Bruce gave you as a CUSTOM PERCENT TRUE indicator then RT SORT by the ACTUAL VALUE of the indictator, if you like.
Check out these videos:
Visually Backtesting Specific Symbols
Sorting price and indicators by their Actual Value
Real time indicator sorting (available at the Platinum level)
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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ksoong,
The Percent True will probably not match the charts except in Daily Mode either. One reason is that MoneyStream doesn't start calculating until the left edge of the chart. This means the Moving Average Child doesn't start drawing until 22-Periods later and has very limited data for its calculations.
The other reason also has to do with the way MoneyStream is charted and is more important. When charting multi-day per bar charts, MoneyStream is not calculated based on each bar, but is calculated based on Daily data and sampled at the end of each bar. If you plot MoneyStream and a Custom Indicator with MS1 as the Indicator Formula, the plots will not match because MoneyStream uses Daily data for its calculations while the Custom Indicator uses data based on the selected Timeframe. I'm not sure how intra-day MoneyStream is charted, but intra-day charts do not match either.
The only thing I can think of is to plot a Custom Indicator with MS1 and the Indicator Formula instead of plotting MoneyStream, but this "solution" will obviously not produce the same values and crossovers as would have been produced when plotting MoneyStream.
-Bruce
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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As a matter of fact, I did ploted the PCFs as the CUSTOM PERCENT TRUE indicators and the problem is the Indicators didn't work properly in realtime [hourly] chart. Take the QQQQ hourly chart for example, on Aug 4 @ 15:00 bar, the above No. 2 PCF (from Bruce) turned TRUE while MS is above its 22-mov avg and TSV is below its 19-mov avg; and the same thing happen on Aug 07 @ 16:00 bar. This doesn't make any sense to me.
Thanks
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Please read Bruce's post above, he explains why.
- Craig
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Registered User
Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 44
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Bruce,
Thanks for your help - appreciate
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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ksoong,
You're welcome.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
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Registered User
Joined: 8/19/2006
Posts: 6
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Your BOP indicator is not a valid indicator. I believe this is the reason you keep it as proprietory.
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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OK.
For kicks and giggles, define "valid indicator" for us.
- Craig
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 Gold Customer
Joined: 3/26/2006
Posts: 223
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Bruce / Craig,
The TSV video is very useful, but I haven't found a systematic use of multiple TSV (like TSV5, 10, 15, 20 and 27 for example). Also it is not clear which one has to be used. And I found that in case of big jump/fall of the stock there may be a fall/jump back of TSV5 after 5 days (same for TSV10 after 10 days and so on to TSV27 after 27 days. In this case I wonder if a jump or fall of TSV cannot be misinterpreted if multiple TSV are not used.
FLSH illustrates this clearly in June to July 06 and also August 06.
Thanks for your excellent service.
Bernard
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