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Registered User
Joined: 1/21/2008
Posts: 73
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I'm new to these indicators but I understand that they work well together from one of your posts.
I was wondering if you could give me some insight in how to use these two together.
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
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The trainers can't give setting, interpretation or investment advice. You may wish to review the following:
Basic Info on BOP, TSV and MoneyStream
I will also move this topic to the Stock and Market Talk forum where other traders are more likely to see it and comment.
-Bruce
Personal Criteria Formulas
TC2000 Support Articles
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Registered User
Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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I use moneystream more than BOP. I haven't the foggiest clue as to how BOP is calculated BUT it seems to catch large lot activity... at least theoreticaly. What triggers BOP exactly we don't know and often it will be red in the valley lows and green at the valley peaks. Why this is is beyond me.. either it's picking up on all the panic selling (of late) or it's misfireing then. I Tend to bear BOP in mind and consider larger time periods than realy short term history. That said If i'm looking for a reason to discout a trade in favor of another BOP can be the deal breaker. But that's me. It's better at picking up quiet accumulation over longer time frames... your looking for rythmic or sporadic surges of Green on the screen that aren't generaly matched by red later... that tends to describe short term trading activity where as fields of green with out the coresponding red tends to be accumulation gonig on. Again this is a throertical argument.... it's probably calculated from price and volume,and possibly time.
Moneystream I use allot. Moneystream can actual take off and lead a stock up or down. you are concerned with multiple time frames in terms of a look back period. Basic divergences are handy.. find them with linear regression sorts (there is a video under the training section) or sort watchlist by it's visual value... your looking for moneystream to be leading price on a short term and or to be moving contrary to price on longer time frames... say for the last 4 months price has been making lower lows but moneystream is making higher lows.
also Moneystream with a moving average crossover CAN be signifficant.
Hope that helps.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/21/2008
Posts: 73
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Thanks for the advice but I guess since I'm a short term trader, I shouldn't use BOP.
I use stochastic a lot but I also need another indicator to rely on, but i'm not sure which one.
I was thinking about money stream but, if you could recommend me a better indicator or tell me how to use money stream, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Joe.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/8/2004
Posts: 213
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As best as I can figure BOP is calculafed over a relaively shot period of time and updated by dropping an old day and adding the current day's data..
It appears to me to be calculated using trade sizes and trade direction, possibly the bid and ask.
Bottom line on BOP is that it it appears to be an attempt to capture accumulation and distribution days.
Since the BOP is a what I consider a short term indicator taking into account less than a months worth of activity, one day of 3X or more than average volume can significantly move the BOP. .
Since low float stocks tend to have more extreme volume days relative to their average daily volume BOP is lot more volatile on low float stocks where sometimes one extreme volume day can be as much as the total volume for a 2 or 3 weeks. This is a lot less lightly to happen where the float and daily volume of a stock are high like with say stocks like MSFT, ORCL, etc.
I have seen stocks go up for long periods of time while their BOP is red and down for extended periods of time when their BOP is green.
I haven't looked into MS that much except it seems to me that from my experience you are more likely to see TSV as a positive or negative divergence than MS.
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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QUOTE It appears to me to be calculated using trade sizes and trade direction, possibly the bid and ask.
To be accurate, BOP is calculated on your machine within TeleChart only using some or all of the data you download. It only has access to daily Open, High, Low, Close and Volume. It does not have access to bids, asks or trade sizes.
- Craig
Here to Help!
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Registered User
Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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QUOTE (mccarthyj1)
Thanks for the advice but I guess since I'm a short term trader, I shouldn't use BOP.
I use stochastic a lot but I also need another indicator to rely on, but i'm not sure which one.
I was thinking about money stream but, if you could recommend me a better indicator or tell me how to use money stream, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Joe.
I am too but that dosen't mean that you can't use BOP. I use it allot.. I just don't rely on it. I've often focused on stocks showing BOP as one of the criteria for a trade. Seeing a history of Accumulation or distribution in a potential pick can be reasuring. right now I find allot of RED BOP in the exact valley lows and Green at the tops other times it's different.. or more methodical looking.
Stochastics has it's flaws also .. on a momentum run Stochastics will often get stuck in the over bought territory... understandign this about it may help prevent you from selling simply becasue a stock is overbought... Butying at a stochastic low may help increase the probabilities of a value purchae or an entry near a swing low... or it may be the beginning of a downward momentum run..... Then there are divergences in the indicator.... are they significant or not ? when are they and when are they not? all indicators have times when they aren't performing right.
Moneystream is an excellent indicator and one of my favorites. It can at times be slow to react BUT I find it's more signifficant than a TSV move when it is leading price. Basically speaking Moneystream above a moving average and moving up is associated with rising prices. some times moneystream moves faster than price.. this is picking up the fact that volume is starting to flow into a stock at levels that may not be imediately recognized by just looking at price and volume bars...
PUtting a linear regression line on moneystream and on price and sorting price for visual slope, flagging the negative slope tickers then resorting for the visual slope of the linear regression line on Moneystream. Unflagg all with a negative slope.. You want to look at all stocks where price is falling and moneystream is headed up. These are divergences and are one strategy that can be used to find moneystream based candidates. when I play divergence stock plays i also look for divergences in other indicators.... just helps me feel better about the trade. What is happening is price is falling and Moneystream is rising over a selected period of time.... it's often a precursor to a price move up in the direction of the indicator.
making a basic condition that a buy candidate must have Moneystream above it's moving average to confirm strength could be another strategy... While a countertrend strategy might look for moneystream and price to have both fallen hard to look for bounces as quick in and out trades.
hope that helps.
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Registered User
Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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Some people look for BOP Reversals and BOP net change or BOP for a certain period of time. For a long tiem I sorted all picks by the pcf "BOP20".. which just brought the strongest BOP picks for the last 20 days to the top of the list first.
I also picked up a PFC some where called " BOP quiet Accumulation"
BOP8.5 = BOP1
not even shure exactly what it does. It's probably in a scan some where.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/1/2005
Posts: 2,645
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QUOTE (scottnlena) I also picked up a PFC some where called " BOP quiet Accumulation"
BOP8.5 = BOP1
not even shure exactly what it does.
Scott,
1) Since the truth value of the PCF does not change with a sign change of the BOP sequence, for whatever reason it is called "BOP quiet Accumulation", that is the same reason it should be called "BOP quiet Distribution".
2) In order for the PCF to return True, since the value of BOP1 is an integer, the value of:
BOP1.5+BOP1.6+BOP1.7+BOP1.8+BOP1.9+BOP1.10+BOP1.11+BOP1.12
must be divisible by 8. I doubt anyone would care whether the sum is divisible by 8.
3) Since BOP values are limited below at -100 and above at +100, probably the only value the PCF could have is to find stocks for which the BOP values used in the PCF are all -100 or else all +100. A PCF for that condition is:
(BOP8.5 = (-100) AND BOP1 = (-100)) OR (BOP8.5 = 100 AND BOP1 = 100)
Thanks,
Jim Murphy
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Registered User
Joined: 1/1/2005
Posts: 2,645
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Sir Bollinger band width,
I suggest you and interested others review:
http://www.worden.com/training/default.aspx?g=posts&t=28802
In particular, much can be learned of BOP by comparing it on SP-500 and SPY.
QUOTE (Sir Bollinger band width) I haven't looked into MS that much except it seems to me that from my experience you are more likely to see TSV as a positive or negative divergence than MS.
Your observation is not due to the difference in the raw data of MS and TSV, it is due to the difference in the behavior of the filters usually applied to the raw data. For example, if we applied a Moving Average to the raw data of MS and a Cumulative Indicator to the raw data of TSV, your statement would become:
"You are more likely to see MS as a positive or negative divergence than TSV."
Thanks,
Jim Murphy
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Registered User
Joined: 12/8/2004
Posts: 213
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QUOTE (Craig_S) QUOTE It appears to me to be calculated using trade sizes and trade direction, possibly the bid and ask.
To be accurate, BOP is calculated on your machine within TeleChart only using some or all of the data you download. It only has access to daily Open, High, Low, Close and Volume. It does not have access to bids, asks or trade sizes.
Thanks for correcting that.
You were a big help
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Registered User
Joined: 12/8/2004
Posts: 213
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Great comments on this thread.
It will take a bit to digest it all.
Thanks everyone for your insightful comments
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