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pthegreat
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 1:17:13 PM

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Joined: 6/15/2008
Posts: 1,356
I just ran into this youtube video, and eventhough my impulses were to close it, and write it off to lala land, my "out of the box" thinking part of my brain, kept me from doing so.
  Gann apparently applied astrology to his trading methods. I have not read any Gann materials.

Just wondering if there are any traders here that feel there's any value in this. (wow, how would you get these charts in stockfinder    )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0BhlY6dPP0
davidjohnhall
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 3:59:57 PM

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Hey P,

I've read a ton on Gann, and most of his books.  I can't say that I use a lot of his methods, but his work did help me focus more on cycles, high-low cycles, time, high low prices plotted in time, etc.  He also has some great stuff on mass psychology.  Well worth the time in my opinion. 

David John Hall
funnymony
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 5:55:03 PM

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maybe somebody should make a suggestion to worden bros, to add this to their list list of indicators
fpetry
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:50:11 PM
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QUOTE (funnymony)
maybe somebody should make a suggestion to worden bros, to add this to their list list of indicators


I was skeptical until I read the on-screen texts starting at about the 5:42 mark.  I'm going to use those figures to produce a custom indicator.  The Tarot Cards inclusion was the tipping point.
davidjohnhall
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 7:50:38 PM

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LOL  I think they have Gann fans but that's it.  haha

I subscribed to Wave 59 a couple years back.  Wow.  They had everything.  Gan fanns.  Square of 9.  Cycle indicators.  Lunar phases.  Something that even predicted the next days move with a suprisingly good success rate.  I think it was called a natal forcast.  It had all of the planetary aspects and something called a fibonacci vortex (I swear this isn't a commercail for Wave59).  Anyway, long story short -- I still couldn't close a winning trade.  LOL  I was in the middle of a 3 year losing streak and none of those tools helped. 

David John Hall
davidjohnhall
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 8:48:36 PM

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Okay, seeing as this thread reminded me of crazy old Gann, I thought I'd look at the SPY chart and see if the price as time thing lined up with our current chart (yeah - I'm bored - LOL). 

Anway, let me preface this by saying that I don't trade this way or think that there's a massive secret to the market (outside of figuring out what's inside of our own heads), but this was a pretty interesting excersise.  Here's a couple of charts:

First you find a major high and use that as the starting point.  From there, 1/2 of that high represented in days should be a major low (or high) and 25% of that price in days should be an intermediate high or low. 



See?  Pretty interesting!  Can it be coincidence?  Yes!  100% yes.  But who cares, this is a fun game.

From here you can square out the high and low and supposedly (according to Gann) glean some important future turning points or dates of possible high activity.

It's my understanding that he would use thse dates and see if they lined up with other astrological events along with chart patterns to find highly concentrated areas of activity.

Here's the first square...



From here you can keep drilling down into smaller squares and move into the future.  I don't like to drill too far down.  Just enough to see events in weekly time intervals.

Like this:



You can see that just recently at that vertical line we had a small top.  Next event seems to be at September 26. 

So how do you trade all of this?  I have no idea.  LOL!  Like I said, I couldn't put up any winning trades using this info -- so I went back to price and volume and have been happy ever since.  But this is a lot of fun to look at.

David John Hall
pthegreat
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 9:26:26 PM

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QUOTE (davidjohnhall)
So how do you trade all of this?  I have no idea.  LOL!  Like I said, I couldn't put up any winning trades using this info -- so I went back to price and volume and have been happy ever since.  But this is a lot of fun to look at 
David John Hall


thanks 4 sharing david, seems like we'reon the same wavelenght, could it be that we have the same zodiac ?? LOL. yea that was fun for a saturday.   September 26.. ok!
wwrightjuly4
Posted : Saturday, September 3, 2011 11:27:53 PM
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Joined: 4/10/2006
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The human brain is configured to find patterns, in anything, it is how we filter images.   It is easy to play tricks on the brain.  Our brain will pick out patterns in random data find big dippers in most any set of data.  Here's,  the Pentagram pattern  often traded by Lucifer Amongust, from his book "5 tips to becoming self sufficient".




jas0501
Posted : Monday, September 5, 2011 11:21:46 PM
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Joined: 12/31/2005
Posts: 2,499

For those of you enamored with these approaches I can offer you a biorhythms system to determine what days you should enter and what days you should exit the market. It is highly systematic and tuned to maximize your personnel returns.










For those of you in the New York City area, I also have a bridge available for sale!

davidjohnhall
Posted : Tuesday, September 6, 2011 10:10:03 PM

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LOL.  jas.  I'll take both!

I think the symetry in the market is really interesting.  I always have.  Not that I think it's tradable (for me).   I also find Gann very interesting. 

Here's an excerp from an interview with Gann by Wykoff.

We submit this in full recognition of the fact that in Wall Street a man with a new idea, an idea which violates the traditions and encourages a scientific view of the Proposition, is not usually welcomed by the majority, for the reason that he stimulates thought and research. These activities the said majority abhors.

W. D. Gann’s description of his experience and methods is given herewith. It should be read with recognition of the established fact that Mr. Gann’s predictions have proved correct in a large majority of instances.

“For the past ten years I have devoted my entire time and attention to the speculative markets. Like many others, I lost thousands of dollars and experienced the usual ups and downs incidental to the novice who enters the market without preparatory knowledge of the subject.”

“I soon began to realize that all successful men, whether Lawyers, Doctors or Scientists, devoted years of time to the study and investigation of their particular pursuit or profession before attempting to make any money out of it.”

“Being in the Brokerage business myself and handling large accounts, I had opportunities seldom afforded the ordinary man for studying the cause of success and failure in the speculations of others. I found that over ninety percent of the traders who go into the market without knowledge or study usually lose in the end.”

“I soon began to note the periodical recurrence of the rise and fall in stocks and commodities. This led me to conclude that natural law was the basis of market movements. I then decided to devote ten years of my life to the study of natural law as applicable to the speculative markets and to devote my best energies toward making speculation a profitable profession. After exhaustive researches and investigations of the known sciences, I discovered that the law of vibration enabled me to accurately determine the exact points at which stocks or commodities should rise and fall within a given time.”

The working out of this law determines the cause and predicts the effect long before the street is aware of either. Most speculators can testify to the fact that it is looking at the effect and ignoring the cause that has produced their losses.


I LOVE this guy.  He's so mysterious.  And his name is still tossed around.  Anyone who has read about Gann or studied his work knows the time and attention he put into it.  It's mindblowing the level of work he produced. 

I still say he's well worth a read by anyone wanting to go deeper into the histpry of the markets.

davidjohnhall
Posted : Tuesday, September 6, 2011 10:23:07 PM

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The human brain is configured to find patterns, in anything, it is how we filter images.

Luckily!  In and of itself this is not a bad thing.  If I find a dragon in the markets and I no one else sees that pattern what does it matter?  If everyone else sees it what does it matter?  It matters what I am able to do with a pattern personally.  It matters if I know how to manage my money.  It matters if I am able to close out my trades if a stop loss is hit.  It matters if I am able to trade the next pattern that comes up even though the last 4 or 5 were losers.  And of course it matters if, over time, I am able to be profitable with a certain pattern.  It matters if I have self control.  If I am able to stay positive.  If I am able to enjoy what I am doing.  All of those items come into play as well.

I think a lot of traders are tricked more by their overconfidance than by the patterns that may or may not be in the market.  What if an inability to close a trade at target is the reason for many losing trades?  But the trader concludes it's the pattern, or that all patterns are worthless?  Those conclusions are based on over confidance.  Believing that the trader knows what is wrong with his trading.  Or with pattern trading even.

If Gann says "I use these methods and they work for me" -- I can either think that's interesting and look further into it for myself, or I can try and prove he's a fraud.  I think we can run into trouble when we automatically think everyone is a fraud because their methods don't work for us.

If Iwant to surf more than anythig in the world but for whatever reason I can't grasp it, does that make all of the guys out there who are surfing frauds?

Justy thinking out loud.  :-)

David John Hall
tomson10
Posted : Tuesday, September 6, 2011 10:40:20 PM
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Hey davidjohnhall, you used to have a TC 'Gold Customer' title with your name. did you quit using TC?
davidjohnhall
Posted : Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:32:25 PM

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Hey tomson -- yeah -- I started using the charting package that came with my broker because I wasn't that thrilled with the new release.  I've been playing around with the demo version though and will probably be coming back soon.   Nothing like good old TC!
mbryantatl
Posted : Monday, September 19, 2011 12:26:14 AM
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Joined: 12/13/2010
Posts: 8
QUOTE (pthegreat)
I just ran into this youtube video, and eventhough my impulses were to close it, and write it off to lala land, my "out of the box" thinking part of my brain, kept me from doing so.
  Gann apparently applied astrology to his trading methods. I have not read any Gann materials.

Just wondering if there are any traders here that feel there's any value in this. (wow, how would you get these charts in stockfinder    )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0BhlY6dPP0


PtheGreat,
  I would google Jeff Cooper if you want to learn more about Gann techniques and things like the square of 9, which Cooper uses in tandem with his swing trading methods and cycle work.
pthegreat
Posted : Monday, September 19, 2011 4:41:44 PM

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Joined: 6/15/2008
Posts: 1,356
QUOTE (mbryantatl)
I would google Jeff Cooper if you want to learn more about Gann techniques and things like the square of 9, which Cooper uses in tandem with his swing trading methods and cycle work.

I opened up a whole new can of worms with this thread. 
But thanks its very interesting, and hope to find some time.
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