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I just feel the need to get this out there, I do not expect any response to this post.
Believe it or not I actually do not like the fighting that takes place and I know that I am in the middle of most of it. It all started with my poor decision to disagree with bigblock and now it has spiraled out of control like a wild fire.
There in lay the problem. Disagreeing with. It has been said that I react harshly when some one disagree's with me. Well lets look at that for a moment. I did not agree with Ben after the July correction that the markets would continue north and he felt the need (and rightly so) to react to my saying so. I was proved wrong on that one but the issue is about Disagreement. Now I in 99% of cases where I do not agree with a post or a thread then I simply do not respond to that thread. I do not challenge a persons trading method and tell them that they are wrong. It is not good manners to do so. Most people when challenged adversely will defend their position. Instead maybe one should try and understand the others position better by simply asking questions and maintianing a positive dialog. I see this happening all the time. If I told Diceman that he was wrong to buy stocks so high in their trading range and that he should trade using trend line breaks and that maybe he should study up on how to use them. Be honest now, what do you think that his reaction would be?
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that Agm32 and I have a long history of not getting along. So when he makes derogating comments on my threads then how should I react? Now Agm32 has come right out and admitted that he likes to pull my strings I believe is the term he used. So ok then everyone knows that when you pull Apsll's strings then we should all pop some corn and settle in for the show. I have said that I will ignor him and then I do not. Does Diceman ignor Bigblock when he makes his by monthly appearance? No he does not. He lashes out with multiple sarcastic remarks. I actually like it when he does so. But this is about me and my temper.
I will keep trying to cool my jets. If you look at it this way I do get along with most folks and I feel that if Agm32 would cease from pulling on my strings that would, I believe help matters. If he wants to present ideas he need not pull strings to do so. He can do what most of us do and start his own threads. I do not even mind if he wants to inquire and ask questions or even point out alternatives, such as how about trading trend breaks, but to suggest that I need to study up more on his vision of trading is just rude and I reacted.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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If you shut your mouth and trust us.
Your problem is solved.
Let me repeat:
"Trust Us".
Thanks
diceman
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Registered User
Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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They pull your strings because you let them. When you were a kid, wasn't it more enjoyment to make fun of the kid who took his ball and went home?
Diceman outsmarts them with the "pen". The pen is mightier than the sword.
You may want to check with Todydad about this. I think the good lord gave us all a sense of humor. Try using yours more often.
As AGM pointed out to me that trading is very serious, indeed. However, as in all the books that I have read, a trader must be in control of his emotions. A little pun never hurt anyone.
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Joined: 3/21/2006
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Actually John, when I was a kid I was the bully. I do joke around with my friends. I never know about you though. You appear to take what ever side that you percieve has the temporary momentum. One day you are craking jokes with me and then when I get into it with Agm32 (for some reason you think that he is on top) and then you attack me.
I am going to follow Dicemans advice and try to win back my "credibility" I would appreciat if you could stay far away from me. I get un-easy around you. I asked for no one to post here. Diceman I respect so that is fine.
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Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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You really are a big cry baby. l have the right to post any damn thing I want and to comment on anything I want. If the Worden's object to my posts then they can remove them.
You were the playground bully, I doubt that , you most likely were the crybaby that everyone made fun of.
That's why you are so sensitive now. It's just that you can now hide behind the internet.
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Joined: 4/23/2008
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my sentiment of this thread is
they name streets after people like you
they call 'em ONE-WAY
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Joined: 11/1/2005
Posts: 240
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The pen is mightier than the sword. ?
sorry couldn't pass , George Forman commented " any one who believes the pen is mightier than the sword
has never felt the sword" I tend to go with that theory. I'm gone again.
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Registered User
Joined: 1/28/2005
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To George Forman the "grill" was mightier than the pen or the sword.
Thanks
diceman
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Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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Since the flood gates are now open here on this one way street, All my haters take aim. I will no longer fight back. I will post my charts and my strategies. I will shut my mouth and trust us.
The nay sayers will say nay and that is good, for I know not why I bring so much fire to their restless souls. May they find the peace that they seek for I will no longer be fuel for their flame......
In other words prove that I mean nothing to you and seek your amusement else where, prove that you do not need me to validate your reason for being here.
Good day, and good luck.
Apsll/castleme21/Tom.
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Joined: 2/29/2008
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QUOTE (Apsll) Actually John, when I was a kid I was the bully. I do joke around with my friends.
And your still a bully. 
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Registered User
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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How are you James, Yes there might be some truth to that. It was never on a playground however. We used to play sports there. In the words of someone that I once used to know "Trading is serious stuff" so from me there will be less foolishness and more serious stuff.
Thanks Apsll.
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Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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PS: Love your avatar. If you ever want a game just let me know.
Castleme21
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Joined: 2/29/2008
Posts: 17
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QUOTE (Apsll) PS: Love your avatar. If you ever want a game just let me know.
Castleme21
I'm "xxchessne1xx" at chess dot com. I'll play you sometime.
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Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 1,157
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This topic is interesting to me because human nature is interesting. In some ways, emotional triggers are running this whole thread and the other threads like this.
It's interesting to me how we can have a certain desire(a desire to get a long, or a desire to remain quiet, or a desire to be understanding) on an intellectual level and along comes an emotional trigger and all of our intellectual desires go out the window.
I see the same thing happen with trading all the time. A trade is planned out on an intellectual level. There's a target, a stop loss, a position size all determined beforehand and as soon as the first price shock, or news shock, or emeotional trigger somes along, the plan is the first thing cast aside and the emotional aspect takes over.
From what I have read and studied in my own life, this is because there is a root emotional desire or belief that runs much deeper than the intellectual desire. That root emotional desire could be "I must protect my ego at all times", "People are always out to get me", "I can't get anything right", "I know more than most people"...
Mark Douglas explains much of this is in his book Trading in the Zone. He discusses the inpact of information as we percieve it. Not on the level of what the information is really saying but how we "understand" it at that time.
When it comes to the market, the market is offering information all day long and it's up to us to decide what that information means to us. in an of itself, information is neutral. Consider a plunging market. To a trader going long who cannot (for lack of emotional disipline) close his position, that information is pretty painful. Now consider the trade going short on that very same day.
The same thing happens on this board. We see emotional triggers creating emotional responses that don't seem to be in line with intellectual desires. In such a situation I would consider why the triggers are having an effect, which emotions are actually being triggered and what I could do about them.
Is APSLL really abrasive? Is AGM really out to get APSLL? Is Bigblock really rude (well maybe) lol, but what about the information they are providing?
If you take away all the emotional triggers, I see Apsll putting up stock picks. I see AGM discussing trendlines.
In the post where AGM discussed Apsll's approach he offered a different entry as an option. He suggested Apsll brush up on his use of trendlines.
BOOM
Emotional trigger.
APSLL then fires back with "you don't know anything about trading, you can't possibly have traded that trendline" (I paraphrase but you all know how it goes)
Emotional trigger.
It's like being in a trade. See the market move. Oh, there's an opportunity. The market moves against me, I get angry. I double down. It goes against me again, I think the market is telling me "You're not good enough to trade -- you're always wrong". I think "I'll show you" and double up again....and we know how this ends.
Now, having been through many creative workshops where creative material is presented to a group you have no control over, there is a potential to become very sensetive if you feel that the audience doesn't understand or isn't trying to understand what you're tring to convey. And the most difficult part is that when they offer suggestions on how to improve it they aren't going to do it your language. They're going to do it in their language, based on where they come from and what they've experienced in life.
If you don't watch it you can get very emotionally hurt and become creatively damaged trying to defend your position rather trying to understand the opposition or the opposite message. If someone says, "your work is not very good" you can either believe them or not. If they offer suggestions you can either take them or not. But at the root of it, you either BELIEVE them or you don't. If you do believe them you can decide that the integrity of the work is more important than your ego and accept the new information. If you don't believe them you can say so and let it go. If you're not sure what to believe you can try implementing the new information and see how it feels.
In the case of the trendlines, if you don't believe trendlines will improve your trading or if you have traded them in the past and they didn't work for you then they didn't work. You can convey that and move on. Just because they use them means that they will work for you and just because you don't use them doesn't mean they won't work for anyone else.
Just today i am reading a report on buying historical breakouts from a well respected trader. In a couple of the charts there is a breakout to a new high where the profit could have been MUCH greater if the trader bought a break of an earlier trendline.
But that's not his method. I can guarantee that he has traded his method for years and tested it inside and out and for whatever reason he haws concluded that given all the approaches to trading available to him this one is the best fit.
His method is to buy historical highs and he is well versed in the method and he respects the time and effort he has put into the method. If i were to email him and tell him that his method could be improved by trendline breaks or that his method was crap I don't think it would have any impact on him at all. He might email me back why they don't work for him and that's it.
So, if some of this doesn't change I can only imagine that the people who are arguing are doing so because of emotional triggers and beliefs, or because they don't want to stop becuase for whatever reason they need it at this time in their lives.
I know I have gotten into a couple disagreements on the Board and have found myself fighting tooth and nail to defend my position for a day or so before I realized I was responding from an emotional point of view. Once I took away the triggers and removed the emotion I was able to benefit greatly both times. Once being with diceman about going long in a bear market (which ended up shifting my entire trading paradigm and how I see opportunity), once being with bigblock over "the dragon" which helped me to understand that someone else can really have a different idea about what i am doing that what I think am doing and that the best thing i can do for myself was to ALLOW other realities to exist alongside my own no matter how harsh I might perceive them to be.
Well, this has ben a very long post. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts and ideas on this VERY tricky subject.
David John Hall
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Good stuff David. I have read books on this subject and I have taken similar classes. Take away the veil of the conscious mind and we are left with the grey matter. Had you or Diceman suggested the same ideas to me than I would have put away the abrasive sand paper and given merit to a meaningful dialogue. My distain for certain entities certainly made sure that the veil would stay in place. I had preconceived notions that “why would this person be sincere”? Does he really offer advice or an exploding cigar? Then the frustration at why must I endure this person. So although my first reaction was to thank him for his efforts (I should have left it right their and all would have been well) then my ego stepped in and took over.
Now can one trade well and yet be so indulging to their “emotional triggers”? I have no text book answer to this no one really does. The study of emotions is an ongoing journey. I am reminded of a line in the movie “Couch Trip” the psychologist says to Dan Aykroyd about one of his patients “We are supposed to study emotions, not have them”. Funny stuff. Unlike your encounters with BigBlock David, I did no on spot analysis. I could expend my energies and contemplate if any good can come from our encounters and I would say that at the surface this mess did bring you to write your post and in turn causing me to take pause. I should maybe extend an olive branch and really follow through this time with revising my knee jerk reaction to his platitudes’. I am on the right path as I have sworn to do just that. So lets see if I can make it work this time.
Thanks David I do appreciate your words of wisdom.
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Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 214
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yes that is interesting david, thanks for your thoughts.
I would like to correct apsll's misconception of why I posted charts and methods. I enjoy reading about other trading methods and never had any intensions of displaying my own methods. the results of my trading is really only important to me. I do not enjoy boasting to the world like the village idiot does.
you asked for that apsll with your constant barrage of "why don't you post some charts" "you do not trade" "you do not know how to trade". don't act so inordinate, no one is buying it.
you should heed diceman's words "shut your mouth"
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Joined: 2/21/2007
Posts: 797
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AGM: amen, brother
All this from the mention of a simple little trend line method, which I found informative, and we get lunacy from it.
Actually I hope that you continue to post tidbits of info, I'm sure most appreciate it, although most don't post replys or thankyous.
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Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 6,049
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I don't know about you guys but perfection has always been a little bit of a burden for me.
Lets make believe for a moment you have the perfect system. (heh, heh)
Lets make believe you make 200 trades a year.
The chart your yapping about represents .5% of what you do.
What happens the rest of the year?
What happens over the next 10 years?
Is every trade gonna be perfection?
If not then why does this one matter?
Lets say because of my "perfect" timing I buy a stock at its exact low.
Lets say again because of my "perfect" timing I sell it 10 days later at the exact high.
"Perfect" trade right?
To quote Leo: I'm the King of The World!
However, what happens if I do a custom date sort over those 10 days?
Wanna bet a stock I was never looking at did better than my perfect trade?
Wanna bet it wasn't even in a set-up but just moved a lot?
How does my 10 day perfect trade fit in the scheme of things if I watched the
March 2009 bottom explode because I knew the market couldn't go up?
How does my 10 day perfect trade fit in the scheme of things if I stayed
long in 2008 because I saw no danger?
Perfection is an awful burden.
The market is about what you do tomorrow.
Its about what you do next week.
Its about what you do next year.
If I nail a good trade. Its over as soon as its done
because I know there's a whole bunch of things I still have to get right.
3 weeks later that trade means nothing.
I don't make money patting myself on the back.
The simple truth is get it right half the time and win twice as much
as you lose. You already have a money machine.
You don't need perfection.
If you claim it. Then you have a whole lot of heavy lifting to do.
That's a burden I don't need.
Thanks
diceman
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Joined: 12/28/2008
Posts: 26
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I'm relatively new to this board and have to say that I've learned a lot about the market from various contributors. But, I'm truly surprised how much bickering goes back and forth between the same users and sometimes feel like this board is a bad soap opera, "As the Worden World Turns". There seems to be some history that I've missed and a truce doesn't seem in the cards.
So, I'm shouting out to the Worden Mods to please consider deleting any posts and even users that post content with personal insults of any kind. I find myself avoiding this site because I don't have the time or inclination to scroll thru the bs.
The Wordens provide an incredible charting service and this forum is a great way to improve our trading skills (with the help from the more experienced). Thanks to everyone that makes this happen.
Steve
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Joined: 1/12/2009
Posts: 235
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Yea really Casita. There are some great contributors on these forums. Apsll, man you just need to stop responding to every little comment that sets you off. I wish the Worden's would actually put an ignore option within these forums. That way if some jackass makes an off handed remark you could just mark ignore and not even see the comment. Of course if the mods actually moderated the forums a tad more, we might actually have some thought provoking dialogue. Apsll, your posts and stock picks are extremely informative. I'm sure there are many who view these forums that are to afraid to post for fear of intense unfair scrutiny. All I can say is thank God for the few on here that do have balance.
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,181
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Diceman; as usual, good comments; ditto for David's. My brother and I run a small business. One of our 6 key tenets is that "we're only as good as the job we're doing for you today". So trading is just that; we have to ask ourselves, "What have I done for me lately?". Additionally, this point is getting missed, treat your trading like a business. I've said this before, miner to processor, processor to factory, factory to jobber, jobber to wholesaler, wholesaler to retailer, retailer to end user. No one gets the whole pie; but each are happy for their little piece of it. I want people that buy lower than me so I can buy from them; and I want people that buy higher than me so I can sell to them. And I want people that buy even higher than that so that the people just above me will want to buy because they know they can sell. Get it? Revel in the fact that there are different trading styles out there. If everyone traded like me, then, shortly, no one would trade like me. Please be different, please?!
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Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 4,308
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QUOTE (traderm30) Yea really Casita. There are some great contributors on these forums. Apsll, man you just need to stop responding to every little comment that sets you off. I wish the Worden's would actually put an ignore option within these forums. That way if some jackass makes an off handed remark you could just mark ignore and not even see the comment. Of course if the mods actually moderated the forums a tad more, we might actually have some thought provoking dialogue. Apsll, your posts and stock picks are extremely informative. I'm sure there are many who view these forums that are to afraid to post for fear of intense unfair scrutiny. All I can say is thank God for the few on here that do have balance.
Traderm30 I too wish for that very same "ignor option" I think that some forums actuall have that in place so that you do not recieve posts from those that you wish not to hear from. I will do my job in cleaning up the Drama aspects of my posts and just stick to my technical analysis. That is why traders come here after all.
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Joined: 3/6/2009
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Ignor button is not needed if you just do not respond.
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