Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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7/15/08 LONG 1000shrs at 5.19 and 100 contracts LEAPs LXFMA JAN 2010 - 5 PUTS at 1.35
100% protection until 2010 or earlier (you have to see the worst not the best)
Closed trade on 8/15/08 at 6.40 and sold 100 contracts back at 1.25 (ah! sweet time)
Profit = $1210 - $31(3+5+.75) - $100 = $1104
Did it really matter what the indicators said?
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Registered User
Joined: 12/31/2005
Posts: 2,499
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One can throw darts and the financial section and then report the winners too...
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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Yes indeed my good sir. Jas0501 makes a very good point. Show us in detail your trade verification information, buy and sell date and time, we need proof not fantasy.
Oh by the way I bought IPII this morning at $1.90 and just sold at $2.70 and I did not even need any indicators, just a very pointy dart...
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Registered User
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 133
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I'm curious...what led you to that trade? The price action looks very similar to 5/12 with a prior breakdown and struggling stochastics. Was this a 'hail mary' shot to see if it would recover with disregard for indicators?
Regardless of reason.... once in this trade with the downside protection of the puts, what would your stoploss be for the common if it had gone the other way?
I'm also curious about your arithmatic.... $1210 - $31(3+5+.75) - $100 = $1104 doesn't add up. Please confirm what you're doing here.
Thanks, W
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Registered User
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 133
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I'm curious...what led you to that trade? The price action looks very similar to 5/12 with a prior breakdown and struggling stochastics. Was this a 'hail mary' shot to see if it would recover with disregard for indicators?
Regardless of reason.... once in this trade with the downside protection of the puts, what would your stoploss be for the common if it had gone the other way? 3.84 looks like to extent of protection.
I'm also curious about your arithmatic.... $1210 - $31(3+5+.75) - $100 = $1104 doesn't add up. I get 838.75. Please confirm what you're doing here.
Thanks, W
Sorry for the second post I hit the wrong button...
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (jas0501) One can throw darts and the financial section and then report the winners too...
Dear Jassi, I do not throw any darts or report any financial section's winners. The point of this topic wasn't to brag about the trade or any other trade in particular. The point was to display how you can remove your fear and greed from any particular trade by accepting the realities of trading.
I do plenty of trades daily of which I could brag about, but prefer not to. Just no enough time for chatting.
You can take the input as it is and try to learn, or you can continue to do whatever it is you do.
It is all up to you. I must agree that dragons are a lot more fun - just not sure if more profitable.
In an up market we all make money - even dragons.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (winfieldh) I'm curious...what led you to that trade? The price action looks very similar to 5/12 with a prior breakdown and struggling stochastics. Was this a 'hail mary' shot to see if it would recover with disregard for indicators?
Regardless of reason.... once in this trade with the downside protection of the puts, what would your stoploss be for the common if it had gone the other way? 3.84 looks like to extent of protection.
I'm also curious about your arithmatic.... $1210 - $31(3+5+.75) - $100 = $1104 doesn't add up. I get 838.75. Please confirm what you're doing here.
Thanks, W
Sorry for the second post I hit the wrong button...
On 7/14/2008 The system issue a buy signal for the first time since Oct of 2007. Stochastics were above 20 for the first time since then. Information which I cannot discuss here was served to me with prospect target way above my selling point. I trust the system, and I trust the information, I just don't trust my money to the market - hence insured. The price of the LEAP was a no brainer.
I could had held it until the end of my LEAP - do you think it will it higher before them - I think so. My selling had nothing to do with the prospects. I had different reasons and needed the profits so I closed.
Remember closing a trade has nothing to do many times with the trade - some folks need the money to buy a car, a boat, or a new gold pen. Some think the indicator is telling them it is time to sell. Whatever it is - usually it is not what you think it is.
You ask for stop loss?? NO stop loss. Why would I want to give my competition a breaking down point?
By purchasing the PUT I tell them I do not give a rep about what they decide to do until the end of my contract. Like in this case that contract can be a long long contract. They do what they do, and so I do what I do. It is my market, I call my shots - not them.
Don't worry about the arithmatic - substract $25 from the total and you are all set.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (Ptolemy) Yes indeed my good sir. Jas0501 makes a very good point. Show us in detail your trade verification information, buy and sell date and time, we need proof not fantasy.
Oh by the way I bought IPII this morning at $1.90 and just sold at $2.70 and I did not even need any indicators, just a very pointy dart...
Apess, you mean you didn't need you "Bouncing System", or your "Volume Spread Analysis", or your new
idiotic volume indicator.
Wow I am impress - may be you are this guy is becaming a real trader now. May be the tranfer to IB just did it.
IPII ah! you are touching now the botton of the pond.
Leeches are more confortable there, I am glad you found a home. Now you crawl.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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 Ah Mr Bigblock still trying to be clever. Please do not give up your day job. Also you really should not mislead the new traders into believing that trading is so easy. It is very irresponsible. Options are a tricky game to say the least and you might inspire one to play this foolish game and then loose their capital. Also making reference to your top secret sure fire method of true success does no good to anyone, again you only frustrate the inexperienced that have dreams of easy money while the veterans know that you are a fraud.
We do not need to here about your quick trades for profits only to finance your recent desires or bling. Despite what you say it is bragging and deceptive.
Be a man and pick a stock, say why you are picking it and then we can all watch the results together.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (Ptolemy) Ah Mr Bigblock still trying to be clever. Please do not give up your day job. Also you really should not mislead the new traders into believing that trading is so easy. It is very irresponsible. Options are a tricky game to say the least and you might inspire one to play this foolish game and then loose their capital. Also making reference to your top secret sure fire method of true success does no good to anyone, again you only frustrate the inexperienced that have dreams of easy money while the veterans know that you are a fraud.
We do not need to here about your quick trades for profits only to finance your recent desires or bling. Despite what you say it is bragging and deceptive.
Be a man and pick a stock, say why you are picking it and then we can all watch the results together.
Trying to be clever?? Day job? What are you ignorant?
Listen little friend - Options are a must if you want to survive the market. Not all plays of options - some.
If you think you are going to make it in the market with your little stop loss - you are more naive that I thought.
On a different note, you are the one trying to inspire folks here on indicators, and methods, which will lead to nothing but failure. Well you were. Now you are confine to crawling on the botton of your little home like a leech looking for a new host to listen to your nonsense ideas.
You obviously have no clue about options, or any substantial knowledge of market trading. All you know is tinkering and wasting your time. When you get a grip on options, as well as broad knowledge of the markets come back and then we can talk markets and stocks. In the main time I am not interested in your little silly contributions. They are worthless.
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Registered User
Joined: 12/31/2005
Posts: 2,499
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not interested in your little silly contributions. They are worthless.
The same can be said of anything offered by you in this trhead at this point BigBlock.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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QUOTE (BigBlock)
Trying to be clever?? Day job? What are you ignorant?
Listen little friend - Options are a must if you want to survive the market. Not all plays of options - some.
If you think you are going to make it in the market with your little stop loss - you are more naive that I thought.
On a different note, you are the one trying to inspire folks here on indicators, and methods, which will lead to nothing but failure. Well you were. Now you are confine to crawling on the botton of your little home like a leech looking for a new host to listen to your nonsense ideas.
You obviously have no clue about options, or any substantial knowledge of market trading. All you know is tinkering and wasting your time. When you get a grip on options, as well as broad knowledge of the markets come back and then we can talk markets and stocks. In the main time I am not interested in your little silly contributions. They are worthless.
Said the chimpanzee to his keeper.
Just as my friend Jas has made very clear. Your credibility around here is zero. Options are not a must. I can prove that three years ago you had no clue how to use them.
You think that because you type words on your keyboard that they have meaning to anyone but yourself? You are the ignorant one here my friend for I have claimed nothing here.
PS: I also love the way you pad your topic views. 3 days on the forum and over one thousand views (back on the 25th) how shallow. You have to have been sitting there for at least an hour doing it. That pace would shatter any thing that this forum has ever seen and you are not even liked. You are on most peoples ignor list.
Just when I think that you cannot suprise me any more, you always find a way.
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Registered User
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 133
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BigBlock,
Do you use any fundamental data in making trading decisions? Minimum daily volume, min/max price/share, industry/sectors, others?
"On 7/14/2008 The system issue a buy signal for the first time since Oct of 2007. Stochastics were above 20 for the first time since then" What stoch settings do you prefer?
Thanks, W
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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Ptolemy (Apesll) like I said to you before in regards to your lies, and I quote from a different thread, which you responded.
"Very sorry Mr Bigblock. Our intention was as always, just to lure you into another exile. We never meant to have the Managment here lock your long standing thread. I think that we have stomped on you enough. You were a good sport through it all. I am glad that your intent is to be more civil minded, I am sure that this forum will appriciate that.
Goodbye then"
Ptolemy (Apesll the lier)
Part of my response to you:
"and you said "Goodbye then" -haven't we all heard that one. I can guarantie you that you will be back - you just have not control over your mind, and I am going to have you crawling like a parasite looking for a host when you return."
You fellow are a JOKE. And so you are back, and so I have you crawling like a worm.
If I was you I find cover, by the time I get done with you this time you are going to be a shame of yourself little fellow.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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This is clasic deflection. Maybe you cannot "read" my good fellow but I have made allegations of fraud and deception against you and instead of answering to them you strike out at me with old threats never followed through.
I said goodby to you not this forum. I kinda like it here. Now are you going to answere or just stand there and bleed?
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (winfieldh) BigBlock,
Do you use any fundamental data in making trading decisions? Minimum daily volume, min/max price/share, industry/sectors, others?
"On 7/14/2008 The system issue a buy signal for the first time since Oct of 2007. Stochastics were above 20 for the first time since then" What stoch settings do you prefer?
Thanks, W
Hi Winfield - in response to your questions:
Yes I use fundamental data as often as possible mostly when I play long swings. I like to see companies that have a good Quarterly, balance sheet, and cash flow.
Yes I like to trade companies with at least 500,000 average volume.
Price is not an issue. I think there is more potential in lower price stocks - not like penny stocks so.
I do not touch pink sheets or OTCC's
Equity must be optionable.
You can use any stochs setting you prefer - I use my system's, and you know well I cannot go over those here. But your standard should sufice - try a 12-3-3 or 14-3-5. Try to fit it to the stocks you trade.
Will I trade a stock which fundamentals are bad? sure - as long as I protect my rear by using the proper option. The time frame is critical to making such decisions.
My daily activity still is daytrading - sometimes I bypass all the above for a play which show sspecific characteristics at a particular time, and the picture is clear to jump in. I still like whatever it is I am trading to be optionable. Ocassionally I break my own rules - but those stocks must show a clear shot at the given time.
Realize that the dinamics of daytrading can get quite fast as time, and newly found stocks that come up in a specific time may call for quick action - can't wait for fundamental or in depth TA analysis.
Most often than not I come ahead in breaking the rules, but the idea is not to break them. I suppose at times I am forced to bypass them for a shot to profits.
In regards to Sectors I don't use them much really. I like to keep an eye on the rotation, but it has been proven that trying to time business cycle and sector rotation is a non winning proposition, and in fact you would be better off ot invest in an index for that purpose.
In fact if the moderator allows (this is a blog) you may want to check this interesting article:
http://behaviouralinvesting.blogspot.com/2007/10/sector-rotation-investment-dead-end.html
it is also my experience.
Take care.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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QUOTE (Ptolemy)
This is clasic deflection. Maybe you cannot "read" my good fellow but I have made allegations of fraud and deception against you and instead of answering to them you strike out at me with old threats never followed through.
I said goodby to you not this forum. I kinda like it here. Now are you going to answere or just stand there and bleed?
You said goodbye to this forum a long time ago, and in fact you are back disguised with a different name.
Like I said to you before you are a lier, and you cannot control your little mind.
You have no word.
You are a JOKE.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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Lets try this one more time you charlatan
Just as my friend Jas has made very clear. Your credibility around here is zero. Options are not a must. I can prove that three years ago you had no clue how to use them.
You think that because you type words on your keyboard that they have meaning to anyone but yourself? You are the ignorant one here my friend for I have claimed nothing here.
PS: I also love the way you pad your topic views. 3 days on the forum and over one thousand views (back on the 25th) how shallow. You have to have been sitting there for at least an hour doing it. That pace would shatter any thing that this forum has ever seen and you are not even liked. You are on most peoples ignor list.
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Registered User
Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 2,126
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At this point I think not that you are demential, you are actually border line nuts.
If you think I sit down here for an hour doing whatever padding you are talking about - you are nuts.
May be you are the one doing most of the padding? Did you stop to think about that?
Like I said in the other thread - do and check it out -
http://www.worden.com/training/default.aspx?g=posts&t=35089 I just love your clidks - Here and everywhere else.
Well let me post the link - I just love it
"Watch it fool, I am about to get a few more clicks on this thread, and guess what - they are going to come from you. Probably half of the clicks here are from you. You are sick, and I am going to have to file a restraining order for your stocking Apesll. "
You have given no proof that options are no necessary vehicle to insure your capital. On the other had via an example as it was this thread I proof you wrong.
I have done my part you are still to do yours? I am waiting for your presentation.
How does whatever I knew 3 years ago support your claim?
I expect your presentation on how options are not a necessary need to insure your capital to be in depth and explanatory of every point that you present.
Come on I am waiting for your clicks chimpanzee.
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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Well now we can talk it out, since you have admitted some truth here today. How does on that has been trading for only three years become an expert on anything? It will not take long to answere your guesstion. It is a fact that less then 5% of those that play options are profitable. And even fewer get rich using them as insurance. Posting one example that worked is not proof of anything what kind of study is that. A study of one. You are a regular scientist you are.
The burden of proof is on you, not I. Show us a real true study that proves Options are neccassary. Every site I visit in reference to Options all have the same disclaimer that "Options are risky" On every Forum that I frequent I hear stories of how people have lost money dabling in Options. Never a story how someone got rich. So break the trend show us how you got rich using Options or at least produce a sudy for us, some back-testing maybe. You cannot.
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Registered User
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I rest my case you are an idiot with nothing else that a big mouse.
By the way, I have traded for longer than 3 yrs, as I recall from 1992 to 2008. Can you add??
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Registered User
Joined: 8/6/2008
Posts: 45
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We are talking Options here. There are threads in this very forum where you are asking rookie questions on the subject and state that you have been considering using Options. Although Options can work, they are high risk and unreliable. Making this statement does not make me a mouse. I am right and if you are half the trader that you say you are then you too know the truth of it.
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Joined: 4/18/2005
Posts: 4,090
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guys ! ? ? ? 
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 18,819
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Locking
- Craig
Here to Help!
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