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 Re: Volatility Bands--Upper and lower band formulas Rate this Topic:
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comptech2k
 Posted : Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:10:17 PM
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 98
One issue that frequently comes up concerns the difference between volatility bands and Bollinger bands. Bollinger bands are based on the standard deviation of closing prices over a set period of time, while the volatility bands calculation focuses on the daily range rather than just the closing price.

Can you use the following to cacluate a 20 stddev2 the original upper and lower volatility bands for our custom indicator module?:

The formula for the Volatility Band uses a one day Historical Volatility by multiplying the Historical Volatility by the square root of 1 divided by 365, which is 0.05234.
VB Delta = Historical Volatility * Sqrt( 1 / 365) * Daily Closing Price * Size Factor
Upper Band (Resistance) = Close Price + VB Delta
Lower Band (Support) = Close Price - VB Delta

Thanks,
ct2k
Bruce_L
 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2006 11:25:46 AM

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Posts: 65,138

Select Chart Template | Add Indicator | Price Channel.
- Visible: Checked
- Plot Formula Line: ?
- Smoothing Average: 1
- Average Type: Doesn't matter (because the Smoothing Average is 1)
- Width Multiplier: 20
- Indicator Line Formula: C
- Channel Width Formula: SQR((LOG(C / C1) ^ 2 + LOG(C1 / C2) ^ 2 + LOG(C2 / C3) ^ 2 + LOG(C3 / C4) ^ 2 + LOG(C4 / C5) ^ 2 + LOG(C5 / C6) ^ 2 + LOG(C6 / C7) ^ 2 + LOG(C7 / C8) ^ 2 + LOG(C8 / C9) ^ 2 + LOG(C9 / C10) ^ 2 + LOG(C10 / C11) ^ 2 + LOG(C11 / C12) ^ 2 + LOG(C12 / C13) ^ 2 + LOG(C13 / C14) ^ 2 + LOG(C14 / C15) ^ 2 + LOG(C15 / C16) ^ 2 + LOG(C16 / C17) ^ 2 + LOG(C17 / C18) ^ 2 + LOG(C18 / C19) ^ 2 + LOG(C19 / C20) ^ 2 - (LOG(C / C20) ^ 2) / 20) / 20) * C

-Bruce
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comptech2k
 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2006 12:38:52 PM
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Bruce, this maybe right fot the description I gave. The result is much different from the chart examples on a site I saw on the web. This advisory company is well know in the options arena.
In their description they made the following statement:
"A comparison of Bollinger versus volatility bands shows that Bollinger bands flare out more since they are designed to contain most of the price data. In contrast, the ability of a stock to trend outside its volatility bands is one of the keys to its strength".
They did not have the formula posted.
Their graphs on emc,nok,compqx, ect.comparing both bollinger bands and volatility bands are very impressive. I didn't know if I could post the web address here. If not I can e-mail it to you. Let me know.
Thanks,
ct2k
Bruce_L
 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2006 12:42:16 PM

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I found the results a bit odd as well (especially the centering on Price). You can send the link to my attention at support@worden.com.

-Bruce
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comptech2k
 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2006 3:52:23 PM
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Posts: 98
Yea, as you know one can plot an upper bollinger band with the custom indicator function and a separate lower bollinger band with the custom indicator function. I guess I envisioned this could be done with and upper and lower volatility band.
I sent you an e-mail with the web address via support
Thanks,
ct2k
comptech2k
 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2006 5:57:50 PM
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Posts: 98
Bruce, with the last comments I forgot to mention I did some more searches. There are a couple of people out there with a band indicator but they call them "volatility breakout bands". After looking at the charts they too are more or less tend to contain price and signals fire on band hits. The site address I sent you has the best way to use volatility bands I have ever seen and I have been doing this quite awhile. Their indicator actually likes for price to stay outside their volatility bands. By comparing them with bollinger bands overlaid it is truly cool.
Thanks,
ct2k
Bruce_L
 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2006 5:59:42 PM

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Thank you for the additional information. It may make it easier to reproduce the desired indicator.

-Bruce
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bustermu
 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:20:53 PM
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Joined: 1/1/2005
Posts: 2,645
QUOTE (Bruce_L)
I kept the * 16 (square root of 256) described in Historical Volatility (HV), but left out the * 100. The Size Factor can be adjusted by adjusting the Width Multiplier.

Bruce,

The Daily Historical Volatility (HV) is StdDev(LOG(C/C1),P). This is annualized by multiplying by SQR(252), SQR(256), SQR(365), or whatever. The reason the original post multiplied by 0.05234 was to convert from Annualized HV to Daily HV. The reason you multiplied by 16 was to convert Daily HV to Anualized HV. What is desired is Daily HV. Thus, you should delete the 16*0.05234 from your PCF.

With this correction, the value of the Width Multiplier setting for the Price Channel Indicator makes sense.

Thanks,
Jim Murphy
Bruce_L
 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:52:37 PM

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bustermu,
I also suspect the centerline should be AVGC20 instead of C. I've made this change and your suggested change to the original post.

-Bruce
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docmba
 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:25:06 PM
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 17
Hi Bruce, 12/18/06
I am trying to hone a pcf for lower 2nd stand dev using the
stand dev formula : 2stand dev= 2*SQR(Sum((mean- entry1)^2 +(mean -entry2)^2 + ...etc)/n-1)) or something like this
If we apply the above to get the lower 2nd stand dev for 1 year of trading days ,would the following be a start:
2* SQR(Sum (avgc-c200)^2+ (avgc-C199)^2 + (AvgC-C198)^2+ .....(AvgC200-C1)^2)/199 ?
Please fine tune the above .
Also why is 10 considered 1 a standard dev for 1 bollinger band from the moving avergae ? Or do i not understand something here.
thankyou..happy holiday!
Dr Silverhardt
docmba (user)
Bruce_L
 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:43:32 PM

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Posts: 65,138
docmba,
I really couldn't say for sure why we use a Width of 20 for 2 Standard Deviations, but Bollinger Band Width in TeleChart is in tens of a Standard Deviation.

Here's a Personal Criteria Formula matching an Upper Bollinger Band (252,20) in TeleChart:

AVGC252 + 2 * SQR(ABS(C ^ 2 + C1 ^ 2 + C2 ^ 2 + C3 ^ 2 + C4 ^ 2 + C5 ^ 2 + C6 ^ 2 + C7 ^ 2 + C8 ^ 2 + C9 ^ 2 + C10 ^ 2 + C11 ^ 2 + C12 ^ 2 + C13 ^ 2 + C14 ^ 2 + C15 ^ 2 + C16 ^ 2 + C17 ^ 2 + C18 ^ 2 + C19 ^ 2 + C20 ^ 2 + C21 ^ 2 + C22 ^ 2 + C23 ^ 2 + C24 ^ 2 + C25 ^ 2 + C26 ^ 2 + C27 ^ 2 + C28 ^ 2 + C29 ^ 2 + C30 ^ 2 + C31 ^ 2 + C32 ^ 2 + C33 ^ 2 + C34 ^ 2 + C35 ^ 2 + C36 ^ 2 + C37 ^ 2 + C38 ^ 2 + C39 ^ 2 + C40 ^ 2 + C41 ^ 2 + C42 ^ 2 + C43 ^ 2 + C44 ^ 2 + C45 ^ 2 + C46 ^ 2 + C47 ^ 2 + C48 ^ 2 + C49 ^ 2 + C50 ^ 2 + C51 ^ 2 + C52 ^ 2 + C53 ^ 2 + C54 ^ 2 + C55 ^ 2 + C56 ^ 2 + C57 ^ 2 + C58 ^ 2 + C59 ^ 2 + C60 ^ 2 + C61 ^ 2 + C62 ^ 2 + C63 ^ 2 + C64 ^ 2 + C65 ^ 2 + C66 ^ 2 + C67 ^ 2 + C68 ^ 2 + C69 ^ 2 + C70 ^ 2 + C71 ^ 2 + C72 ^ 2 + C73 ^ 2 + C74 ^ 2 + C75 ^ 2 + C76 ^ 2 + C77 ^ 2 + C78 ^ 2 + C79 ^ 2 + C80 ^ 2 + C81 ^ 2 + C82 ^ 2 + C83 ^ 2 + C84 ^ 2 + C85 ^ 2 + C86 ^ 2 + C87 ^ 2 + C88 ^ 2 + C89 ^ 2 + C90 ^ 2 + C91 ^ 2 + C92 ^ 2 + C93 ^ 2 + C94 ^ 2 + C95 ^ 2 + C96 ^ 2 + C97 ^ 2 + C98 ^ 2 + C99 ^ 2 + C100 ^ 2 + C101 ^ 2 + C102 ^ 2 + C103 ^ 2 + C104 ^ 2 + C105 ^ 2 + C106 ^ 2 + C107 ^ 2 + C108 ^ 2 + C109 ^ 2 + C110 ^ 2 + C111 ^ 2 + C112 ^ 2 + C113 ^ 2 + C114 ^ 2 + C115 ^ 2 + C116 ^ 2 + C117 ^ 2 + C118 ^ 2 + C119 ^ 2 + C120 ^ 2 + C121 ^ 2 + C122 ^ 2 + C123 ^ 2 + C124 ^ 2 + C125 ^ 2 + C126 ^ 2 + C127 ^ 2 + C128 ^ 2 + C129 ^ 2 + C130 ^ 2 + C131 ^ 2 + C132 ^ 2 + C133 ^ 2 + C134 ^ 2 + C135 ^ 2 + C136 ^ 2 + C137 ^ 2 + C138 ^ 2 + C139 ^ 2 + C140 ^ 2 + C141 ^ 2 + C142 ^ 2 + C143 ^ 2 + C144 ^ 2 + C145 ^ 2 + C146 ^ 2 + C147 ^ 2 + C148 ^ 2 + C149 ^ 2 + C150 ^ 2 + C151 ^ 2 + C152 ^ 2 + C153 ^ 2 + C154 ^ 2 + C155 ^ 2 + C156 ^ 2 + C157 ^ 2 + C158 ^ 2 + C159 ^ 2 + C160 ^ 2 + C161 ^ 2 + C162 ^ 2 + C163 ^ 2 + C164 ^ 2 + C165 ^ 2 + C166 ^ 2 + C167 ^ 2 + C168 ^ 2 + C169 ^ 2 + C170 ^ 2 + C171 ^ 2 + C172 ^ 2 + C173 ^ 2 + C174 ^ 2 + C175 ^ 2 + C176 ^ 2 + C177 ^ 2 + C178 ^ 2 + C179 ^ 2 + C180 ^ 2 + C181 ^ 2 + C182 ^ 2 + C183 ^ 2 + C184 ^ 2 + C185 ^ 2 + C186 ^ 2 + C187 ^ 2 + C188 ^ 2 + C189 ^ 2 + C190 ^ 2 + C191 ^ 2 + C192 ^ 2 + C193 ^ 2 + C194 ^ 2 + C195 ^ 2 + C196 ^ 2 + C197 ^ 2 + C198 ^ 2 + C199 ^ 2 + C200 ^ 2 + C201 ^ 2 + C202 ^ 2 + C203 ^ 2 + C204 ^ 2 + C205 ^ 2 + C206 ^ 2 + C207 ^ 2 + C208 ^ 2 + C209 ^ 2 + C210 ^ 2 + C211 ^ 2 + C212 ^ 2 + C213 ^ 2 + C214 ^ 2 + C215 ^ 2 + C216 ^ 2 + C217 ^ 2 + C218 ^ 2 + C219 ^ 2 + C220 ^ 2 + C221 ^ 2 + C222 ^ 2 + C223 ^ 2 + C224 ^ 2 + C225 ^ 2 + C226 ^ 2 + C227 ^ 2 + C228 ^ 2 + C229 ^ 2 + C230 ^ 2 + C231 ^ 2 + C232 ^ 2 + C233 ^ 2 + C234 ^ 2 + C235 ^ 2 + C236 ^ 2 + C237 ^ 2 + C238 ^ 2 + C239 ^ 2 + C240 ^ 2 + C241 ^ 2 + C242 ^ 2 + C243 ^ 2 + C244 ^ 2 + C245 ^ 2 + C246 ^ 2 + C247 ^ 2 + C248 ^ 2 + C249 ^ 2 + C250 ^ 2 + C251 ^ 2 - 252 * AVGC252 ^ 2) / 251)

Here's a Personal Criteria Formula matching a Lower Bollinger Band (252,20) in TeleChart:

AVGC252 - 2 * SQR(ABS(C ^ 2 + C1 ^ 2 + C2 ^ 2 + C3 ^ 2 + C4 ^ 2 + C5 ^ 2 + C6 ^ 2 + C7 ^ 2 + C8 ^ 2 + C9 ^ 2 + C10 ^ 2 + C11 ^ 2 + C12 ^ 2 + C13 ^ 2 + C14 ^ 2 + C15 ^ 2 + C16 ^ 2 + C17 ^ 2 + C18 ^ 2 + C19 ^ 2 + C20 ^ 2 + C21 ^ 2 + C22 ^ 2 + C23 ^ 2 + C24 ^ 2 + C25 ^ 2 + C26 ^ 2 + C27 ^ 2 + C28 ^ 2 + C29 ^ 2 + C30 ^ 2 + C31 ^ 2 + C32 ^ 2 + C33 ^ 2 + C34 ^ 2 + C35 ^ 2 + C36 ^ 2 + C37 ^ 2 + C38 ^ 2 + C39 ^ 2 + C40 ^ 2 + C41 ^ 2 + C42 ^ 2 + C43 ^ 2 + C44 ^ 2 + C45 ^ 2 + C46 ^ 2 + C47 ^ 2 + C48 ^ 2 + C49 ^ 2 + C50 ^ 2 + C51 ^ 2 + C52 ^ 2 + C53 ^ 2 + C54 ^ 2 + C55 ^ 2 + C56 ^ 2 + C57 ^ 2 + C58 ^ 2 + C59 ^ 2 + C60 ^ 2 + C61 ^ 2 + C62 ^ 2 + C63 ^ 2 + C64 ^ 2 + C65 ^ 2 + C66 ^ 2 + C67 ^ 2 + C68 ^ 2 + C69 ^ 2 + C70 ^ 2 + C71 ^ 2 + C72 ^ 2 + C73 ^ 2 + C74 ^ 2 + C75 ^ 2 + C76 ^ 2 + C77 ^ 2 + C78 ^ 2 + C79 ^ 2 + C80 ^ 2 + C81 ^ 2 + C82 ^ 2 + C83 ^ 2 + C84 ^ 2 + C85 ^ 2 + C86 ^ 2 + C87 ^ 2 + C88 ^ 2 + C89 ^ 2 + C90 ^ 2 + C91 ^ 2 + C92 ^ 2 + C93 ^ 2 + C94 ^ 2 + C95 ^ 2 + C96 ^ 2 + C97 ^ 2 + C98 ^ 2 + C99 ^ 2 + C100 ^ 2 + C101 ^ 2 + C102 ^ 2 + C103 ^ 2 + C104 ^ 2 + C105 ^ 2 + C106 ^ 2 + C107 ^ 2 + C108 ^ 2 + C109 ^ 2 + C110 ^ 2 + C111 ^ 2 + C112 ^ 2 + C113 ^ 2 + C114 ^ 2 + C115 ^ 2 + C116 ^ 2 + C117 ^ 2 + C118 ^ 2 + C119 ^ 2 + C120 ^ 2 + C121 ^ 2 + C122 ^ 2 + C123 ^ 2 + C124 ^ 2 + C125 ^ 2 + C126 ^ 2 + C127 ^ 2 + C128 ^ 2 + C129 ^ 2 + C130 ^ 2 + C131 ^ 2 + C132 ^ 2 + C133 ^ 2 + C134 ^ 2 + C135 ^ 2 + C136 ^ 2 + C137 ^ 2 + C138 ^ 2 + C139 ^ 2 + C140 ^ 2 + C141 ^ 2 + C142 ^ 2 + C143 ^ 2 + C144 ^ 2 + C145 ^ 2 + C146 ^ 2 + C147 ^ 2 + C148 ^ 2 + C149 ^ 2 + C150 ^ 2 + C151 ^ 2 + C152 ^ 2 + C153 ^ 2 + C154 ^ 2 + C155 ^ 2 + C156 ^ 2 + C157 ^ 2 + C158 ^ 2 + C159 ^ 2 + C160 ^ 2 + C161 ^ 2 + C162 ^ 2 + C163 ^ 2 + C164 ^ 2 + C165 ^ 2 + C166 ^ 2 + C167 ^ 2 + C168 ^ 2 + C169 ^ 2 + C170 ^ 2 + C171 ^ 2 + C172 ^ 2 + C173 ^ 2 + C174 ^ 2 + C175 ^ 2 + C176 ^ 2 + C177 ^ 2 + C178 ^ 2 + C179 ^ 2 + C180 ^ 2 + C181 ^ 2 + C182 ^ 2 + C183 ^ 2 + C184 ^ 2 + C185 ^ 2 + C186 ^ 2 + C187 ^ 2 + C188 ^ 2 + C189 ^ 2 + C190 ^ 2 + C191 ^ 2 + C192 ^ 2 + C193 ^ 2 + C194 ^ 2 + C195 ^ 2 + C196 ^ 2 + C197 ^ 2 + C198 ^ 2 + C199 ^ 2 + C200 ^ 2 + C201 ^ 2 + C202 ^ 2 + C203 ^ 2 + C204 ^ 2 + C205 ^ 2 + C206 ^ 2 + C207 ^ 2 + C208 ^ 2 + C209 ^ 2 + C210 ^ 2 + C211 ^ 2 + C212 ^ 2 + C213 ^ 2 + C214 ^ 2 + C215 ^ 2 + C216 ^ 2 + C217 ^ 2 + C218 ^ 2 + C219 ^ 2 + C220 ^ 2 + C221 ^ 2 + C222 ^ 2 + C223 ^ 2 + C224 ^ 2 + C225 ^ 2 + C226 ^ 2 + C227 ^ 2 + C228 ^ 2 + C229 ^ 2 + C230 ^ 2 + C231 ^ 2 + C232 ^ 2 + C233 ^ 2 + C234 ^ 2 + C235 ^ 2 + C236 ^ 2 + C237 ^ 2 + C238 ^ 2 + C239 ^ 2 + C240 ^ 2 + C241 ^ 2 + C242 ^ 2 + C243 ^ 2 + C244 ^ 2 + C245 ^ 2 + C246 ^ 2 + C247 ^ 2 + C248 ^ 2 + C249 ^ 2 + C250 ^ 2 + C251 ^ 2 - 252 * AVGC252 ^ 2) / 251)

The portion after the AVGC252 + or AVGC252 - is 2 Standard Deviations. You may wish to review the following:

Modelling Bollinger Bands (& Standard Deviation) in a TC PCF
How to create a Personal Criteria Forumula (PCF)
Handy PCF example formulas to help you learn the syntax of PCFs!

-Bruce
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bustermu
 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:28:04 PM
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Posts: 2,645
QUOTE (Bruce_L)
bustermu,
I also suspect the centerline should be AVGC20 instead of C. I've made this change and your suggested change to the original post.

Bruce,

No! The centerline should be C, not AVGC20. The purpose of the Volatility Bands is:

"The Volatility Bands calculate support and resistance levels for tomorrow's price action."

The only source of error in the site from which the original post was obtained is the approximation:

EXP( x ) ~= 1+x

for small ABS( x )

Interested Users: If you do a Google search for "Historical Volatility Bands", the title "March 2005 Trading Tips Newsletter" will get you to the site used in the original post. There are other definitions and purposes for "Volatility Bands".

I will provide a subsequent post showing how the above approximation was used.

Thanks,
Jim Murphy

Bruce_L
 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:20:25 PM

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Posts: 65,138
bustermu,
I changed the centerline back. That was an interesting read. Significantly different than much that I've read in other articles on Volatility Bands in the last few days. It does appear to probably be the original source.

-Bruce
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comptech2k
 Posted : Wednesday, December 20, 2006 1:45:21 PM
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Posts: 98
bustermu,
Thanks for the info. That web site is a monster,their search engine is not very good and they do not sort things alphabetical under the main topics so it is a bit hard to get to the article. After doing the google search you suggested, for those interested, the easiest way is to pull down the menu look for education then find the exceptional anlalysis heading. Click that then click tecnical analysis, then click on volatility bands. That takes you to the article with the example of emc ect.
ct2k
bustermu
 Posted : Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:58:34 PM
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Posts: 2,645
QUOTE (comptech2k)
After doing the google search you suggested, for those interested, the easiest way is to pull down the menu look for education ...

ct2k,

Thanks for the response. I would like to see the article to which you refer. Unfortunately, when I get to the Ensign Software "March 2005 Trading Tips Newsletter", there is no menu to pull down in order to look for education ... .

I obviously can get to the Ensign Software site, and I would suppose all others can. But, how do we then get to the article to which you refer?

Thanks.
Jim Murphy
comptech2k
 Posted : Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:48:27 PM
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Posts: 98
bustermu,
Sorry for the confusion. I saw no article on the Ensign site only a formula layout which I think is different than the schaeffer formula which they do not post.
The article and the examples I mentioned are on the Schaefferresearch site. Today I entered, volatility bands, into google. Their site was the first two hits in the list. The first one went directly to the article and examples on volatility bands so there must have been several hits to bring it to the top since yesterday morning. The second subject in google routes to an example, today, of volatility bands on (goog). On entering the Schaeffer site Monday I noticed under their interactive charting that volatility bands was not included although it was in their educational course.
I am not a member but I spoke with them and suggested they include it. They agreed it should be included. That could be a reason for the google feature today.
Thanks,
ct2k
bustermu
 Posted : Saturday, December 23, 2006 1:44:54 PM
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Joined: 1/1/2005
Posts: 2,645
ct2k,

If you would like to duplicate Schaeffer's Volatility Band Chart, please construct:

Custom Price Channel:
Width Multiplier:
25
Indicator Line Formula:
AVGC20
Channel Width Formula:
AVGH20-AVGL20

I checked this against a number of charts at the Schaeffer Reseach site and found no discrepancies. I initially thought they were using ATR channels, but that turned out not to be the case.

Thanks,
Jim Murphy
comptech2k
 Posted : Tuesday, December 26, 2006 12:02:08 PM
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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 98
bustermu,

I have been gone. Thanks for the clarification. In playing around with bands and channels last few days I noticed something interesting. I used the changes bruce made per your suggestion in the first formula and width multiplier 20 smoothing average 1. I added a tight keltner, width multiplier 6 smoothing average 1.
I find that when the upper keltner tags into the upper volatility band or vice-versa there is a loss of momentum with a pullback or correction in many instances. If it tags and can hold a bar or two price then tends to run up two or more bars up. If it comes close to the tag and fails to tag, prices may trend higher. Of course using other divergences to confirm these possibilities is useful.

Thanks,
ct2k
n2see
 Posted : Friday, May 02, 2008 5:47:34 AM
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Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1
how to calculate support and resistance levels?""
Bruce_L
 Posted : Friday, May 02, 2008 8:40:21 AM

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Joined: 10/7/2004
Posts: 65,138
n2see,
Welcome to the forums. A very good foundation for learning how to use TeleChart can be gained by reviewing the following:

If you are new to TeleChart READ THIS FIRST!

It would depend on your specific detailed and objective definitions of Support and Resistance. On another note, it is generally best to start a new topic when asking a new question and only ask questions in existing topics when they are related to that topic. You may wish to review the following:

Learn how to use the forums: post a new topic, reply, Search existing topics

-Bruce
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