Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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I was told that the Fundamental data, Earnings etc... is updated in TC the same day the earnings are released and not over the weekend like it used to
Is this correct?
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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Yes, it is updated the same day Morningstar processes the data so we get updates every day instead of just on the weekends like in the old version.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Something is off here
I have plotted EPS Latest Qtr and EPS Percent Change Latest Qtr and I spaced bar through many names and neither one of these indicators changes the Day of the earnings release. Not even close
Look at AAPL, GOOGL, AMZN as exampels
AAPL announced 8/1 -
GOOGL announced 7/24 -
AMZN announced 7/27
while the last change in all of them in EPS is on 6/30. HOw can that be?
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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Those were EPS numbers for the quarter ending on June 30, 2017.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Did you understand what I was asking for?
I am honestly puzzled by your response
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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Yes, the last quarter ended on 6/30/2017. AAPL reported EPS of $1.67 for the quarter ending 6/30/2017 and $1.42 for the quarter ending 6/30/2016 which is an increase of 17.61%.
The data gets posted on the quarter ending date for consistency, not the date the earnings are reported.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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I see whats happening the indicator gets backdated to the end of the qtr that's why all chanmges in EPS on all stocks is on the last day of the month ending their qtr
If AAPL announced 8/1 - GOOGL announced 7/24 and AMZN announced 7/27 they will all show the change on 6/30 which was qtr end
why would you guys back date the changes?
If AAPL released on 8/1 why not Let the graph adjust on 8/1 so the earnings graph and all othe fundamental indicators can match the price.
The information released on 8/1 by AAPL wasn't available on 6/30 it became available on 8/1 and therefore the stock reacted to that info starting 8/2
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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What's the use of posting the numbers released on 8/1 or 7/27 or 7/24 on 6/30? What consistency
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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The eanings data or any other fundamental data needs to be consistant with Price as of the date the info became public
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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QUOTE (thnkbigr)
The eanings data or any other fundamental data needs to be consistent with Price as of the date the info became public.
Gotta admit, it's a good point.
I kinda see both sides. But I don't want to step in the middle of someone else's ...
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Am I missing something
What's a benefit to back dating it? Is there any
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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Like I said, I don't want to step in someone else's sh*t, but I guess the only way I can explain it in my current caffeine-addled state is ...
... it depends on what you're using the quarterly fundamental data for. If you want to see its correlation to price, then yeah, your point is valid.
... if you want to compare different company's quarter's fundamentals, then StockGuy's quarter ending date for consistency point is valid, since different companies obviously have different earnings dates even though there's only one quarter ending date.
... both points have points, if you know what I mean.
Barista! Another round!!
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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.. if you want to compare different company's quarter's fundamentals, then StockGuy's quarter ending date for consistency point is valid, since different companies obviously have different earnings dates even though there's only one quarter ending date.
That's not true!
Some comapnies like AAPL, AMZN and GOOGL have their qtr end 3/31, 6/30, 9/30 and 12/31 and some like SPLK and BBY have their qtr end 1/31, 4/30, 7/31, 10/31
Ther is no benefit to back-dating them because there is no consistency.
Price is the MOST important thing and available data should only be date order as when they became available so they are consistent with price.
Unless stockguy and worden has other benefits that I am just aware of for back dating the data
btw BBY reported yesterday before the open and that has not yet been updated in TC
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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Like I said, this is what I get for stepping in it. I trade charts, not fundamentals, so rather than waste more time here, I'm going to flirt with the barista. :)
Good luck!
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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lol
Stockguy is there any reason (Benefit) why TC back dates the numbers?
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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QUOTE (thnkbigr)
Stockguy is there any reason (Benefit) why TC back dates the numbers?
StockGuy, I'd actually like to hear this, too. I don't trade off fundamentals, now. Only charts. Like tb I believe price is king.
But...
Alex Elder likes to say "I reserve the right to be smarter tomorrow than I am today."
Always willing to learn something new ... the more successful my trades, the more cash I have to tip baristas. Win, win!
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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Just bumping. Maybe StockGuy will have a chance to give this some love when he gets back...
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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Bruce, I don't see StockGuy around. Maybe on a coffee run? LOL.
Anyways, do you know anything about this you can share??
If not, no worries. I guess I can wait - like I said, need to work on my waiting.
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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The data is reported on the last day of the quarter it represents. It's uniform across all of our fundamentals. I can understand the point of dating earnings by release date and not the actual time period it represents, but it makes it very difficult to manage when there are no detectable ends of the fiscal quarters.
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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Thanks, StockGuy!
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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I can understand the point of dating earnings by release date and not the actual time period it represents, but it makes it very difficult to manage when there are no detectable ends of the fiscal quarters.
Stockguy I am not clearly understanding your answer. What do you mean by no detectable ends of the fiscal qtrs?
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Stockguy
would you pls respond
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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We know the quarter ending dates for each company. When the data comes across (and when/if a correction is issued at a later date) we get the quarter and the value. The change files don't specify initial report or correction so if we posted everything by the date it was received we could end up with a mess.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Stockguy you can jump on my computer
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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meany anyway you can jump on my computer so we can look at the same screen and talk about this
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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In SF earnings plot differently than TC
Look at AAN in TC vs. SF
In TC it gets back dated to end of March, end of June etc… but it doesn’t do that in SF. Look at AAPL, AMZN and GOOGL as other examples. The EPS Latest Qtr doesn’t get back dated in SF like how it does in TC.
I am not really understanding what you mean by the Mess if you plot the changes as you receive them noting that they info was received on TIME! Whatever mess is that you are referring to so how come it doesn’t get back dated in SF. Can you pls clarify what you are refereeing to and give me examples of such in SF since it doesn’t get back dated.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Can you get back to me on this issue pls
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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We made the change in TC2000 but did not revisit StockFinder. I don't foresee this changing in TC2000.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Is the data updated the same day in TC as in SF? My question do they update at the same time
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Worden Trainer
Joined: 10/7/2004 Posts: 65,138
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Yes, StockFinder and TC2000 both update the day we receive the data from Morningstar.
-Bruce Personal Criteria Formulas TC2000 Support Articles
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Bruce I would appreciate if you begin to work with me on this topic so we can get to the bottom of it as soon as possible rather than spending too much time going back and forth.
I am sure you will agree that information that is either inaccurate or its not updated in a timely manner has very little to no value especially in today's financial markets and there is absolutly no doubt on my mind the TC or Worden's management team wil look to correct things once they see and that the information being provided is eiter not accurate or its not updated on time.
My original question in this topic was
I was told that the Fundamental data, Earnings etc... is updated in TC the same day the earnings are released and not over the weekend like it used to
Is this correct?
which StockGuy answered
Yes, it is updated the same day Morningstar processes the data so we get updates every day instead of just on the weekends like in the old version.
For now let's pls focus on SF since I see no value with backdating the EPS info on the chart to a date when the information wasn't known like how TC does it. I'll come back to TC later
In SF the data is NOT getting updated on TIME and these are just a few ex
AAN reported earnings on2/17, 4/28 and 7/28 hence the two gap ups but in SF the EPS Latest Qtr adjusted on 2/27, 5/5 and 8/4, a week or more later.
ATI announced on 1/24, 4/25, 7/25 but in SF the adjustment took place on 2/24 a month after earnings was announced on 1/24, then 5/2 for the earnings that was announced on 4/25 and 8/3 for the earnings that was announced on 7/25
On PANW while the earnings announced on 11/22 and 3/1 has been updated on time in SF but the last two Qtr’s earnings announced on 6/1 and 9/1 has not been updated to this date.
These are just a few examples so that I can give you an idea.
Fundamental data has to be accurate and updated on a timely manner and if either one of those two are missing the information pretty much has no value! What’s the value of letting me know that the company beat Earnings by X% a week or two after it was announced?
StockGuy mentioned that the info in Worden products gets updated the same day that Morningstar processes the data. So if this is a Morningstar issue that they don’t process the information on time which leads to Worden getting delayed data then I think you guys need to bring this issue to Morningstar's attention. I am assuming Worden is paying Morninstar for their data feed so what's the point of paying for information that's delayed sometimes by weeks.To me this is like updating the prices of the stocks in TC a week or two late so you see where the stock was trading two weeks ago just today.
Again I understand I am a single user of the Worden products even though I am in touch with many users that share the same view as I do and I’ll allow other users to voice their own opinion on the subject. I just can’t imagine any trader, investor or even the Worden executives trade on such delayed earnings information or get any real value out of it.
And like I said I can’t see why the Worden management team wouldn’t look to correct this issue once they understand that the information provided, provides little to no value.
As I am sure you know I have been using the Worden products for 15+ years and I love them when it comes to technicals but I just can't imagine why very little effort has been made to make sure the users are provided with accurate fundamental data. I think it would be a MAJOR enhancement if we could rely on the fundamental data in Worden products as much as we rely on the technicals.
Please check your SF with the examples I gave above and I would be happy to provide many more ex if there is a need.
Many thanks
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Bruce
Pls let me know if you had a chance to look at this
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Registered User Joined: 6/30/2017 Posts: 1,227
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Giving it a bump, but that's all the juice I have. :)
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but this one ain't looking good.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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Is there any reason why we don't get a respond on this?
If you guys are going bacl and forth with the data provider being mornigstar then I think we would all appreciate if you let us know that you are working on the issue and trying to figure out what's going on.
Thanks for understanding
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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No, we're not going back and forth with Morningstar. When we get the data from Morningstar it is dated the last day of the quarter or year it represents (some data is updated quarterly and some only annually).
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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All the companies listed below announced earings this past week from Monday Oct 16th through Friday Oct 20 - It is 12:42 in the morning on Monday Oct 23 and their earnings announced last week has yet to be updated in TC.
Based on what I have been told earlier in this topic by StockGuy. The fundamental data such as earnings gets updtaed the same same day and not over the weekend like how it used to be.
Almost 80% of the earnings reported this past week has not yet been updated in TC! So I am confused because if the data is getting updated on a daily basis so how is it that 80% of the stocks reported earnings this past week have yet to be updated? The weekend is also over and none of these companies have updated information.
We are not talking about small tiny stocks because ss you go through the list you have GS, JNJ, MS, UNH, IBM, AA, AMX, EBAY, PG, HON, GE and many more mega companies that reported and still their earnings are not in TC.
Can you please clarify to us as users as to WHEN the fundamental data gets updated?
Many Thanks
BMI
BRO
CMA
ELS
GS
GWW
HOG
IEX
JNJ
MS
SFBS
SNV
SONC
SYNT
TTS
UNH
CSFL
HCSG
PACW
WWW
ADTN
FULT
HBHC
IBKR
IBM
LRCX
NAVI
PNFP
RNST
SCSS
UFPI
ABT
BJRI
MTB
MTG
UBSH
USB
WAFD
AA
AXP
BDN
BPFH
BRKL
BXS
CCI
CCK
CVBF
EBAY
EGBN
EXPO
GHL
KALU
KMI
RLI
SLG
STLD
UMPQ
VMI
WTFC
ABCB
ADS
BBT
BK
BX
CBF
EWBC
FFIN
FNB
GATX
GPC
HOMB
HTLD
KEY
MBFI
NUE
PM
POOL
PPG
RCI
SAP
SBNY
SEIC
SON
TSM
TXT
VZ
WBS
WGO
ASB
CAI
EGP
ETFC
FFBC
GBCI
HA
IBKC
ISRG
MSA
MXIM
NCR
PBCT
PFPT
PYPL
SKX
SXT
TACO
WAL
WERN
AIMC
CFG
DST
EEFT
GE
GNTX
HON
KSU
MAN
MINI
PG
SLB
STI
SYF
TCF
SCHW
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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I just spaced bar through all stocks that announced earnings last week in SF as well and I see similar results as TC as majority of the stocks still at 1:15 in the morning on Monday don't have update info.
These are the only comapnies that seem from first and quick glance that have updated info in TC.
Just compare the size
CE
CSX
NFLX
OMC
CP
CREE
ASML
SVU
HXL
SLM
TCBI
UAL
URI
DGX
DHR
DOV
SNA
TRV
WBC
ATHN
LHO
TEAM
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Administration
Joined: 9/30/2004 Posts: 9,187
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We get the data as soon as it is reported to us by Morningstar.
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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StockGuy, this just proved my point in my earlier post on Monday, September 11, 2017 4:55:12 PM
What's the point or the benefit to providing delayed information???? Especialy when it comes to earnings!
What's the worth of getting delayed data? It's worthless! You gonna tell me what IBM or GS and many others reported last week sometime this week. Worden management team is satisfied by that?
How can the worden management team be content with that. Clearly this is a Morningstar issue because they don't update in a timly manner so get rid of them! I have access to all morningstar products and they are used for Mutual Fund purposes only! They have never been a stock software especially in this day and age!
From my understanding Worden gets the Next Earnings Date from Zacks but we get our earnings from Morningstar? Why aren't we getting the data from Zacks because it seems to that they update right away and as soon as the company releases.
Personally I don;t care if I have to pay a highre subscription fee and I highly doubt any real trader/investor that uses the woden products would care to pay a little more to have accurate data provided to them in a timely manner!
Of course I am not aware of all the technicalities that has to take place behind the sence but I think every one of the worden subscribers would appreciate if the management team makes an effort and resolves this issue.
This is a major enhancement! At least in my opinion
Please forward this to the higher ups and I would be more than happy to give them many mnay mnay more exampls
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Platinum Customer
Joined: 3/31/2006 Posts: 3,207
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In my Monday, October 23, 2017 12:58:38 AM post I copied 124 stocks that reported earnings TWO weeks ago between 10/16 to 10/20 but their earnings wasn't updated in TC yet.
I just spaced bar through that list and of those 124 stocks 97 of them still don't have updateed earnings in TC.
We are not talking about small, illiquid companies. GE, GS, JNJ, IBM and MS are among the 97 stocks without updated earnings in TC two weeks after their earnings announcement.
How can the senior management be satisfied by this?
From what I see we get the next earnigs date from Zacks and that data seems to get updated asap so why not get the data feed from zacks on earnings?
Updatding the data two weeks later is worthless especially in this day and age!
AA
ABCB
ABT
ADS
ADTN
ASB
BBT
BJRI
BK
BPFH
BRKL
BRO
BX
BXS
CBF
CCI
CCK
CFG
CMA
CSFL
CVBF
DST
EEFT
EGBN
ELS
ETFC
EWBC
EXPO
FFBC
FFIN
FNB
FULT
GATX
GBCI
GE
GHL
GNTX
GS
GWW
HBHC
HCSG
HOG
HOMB
HTLD
IBKC
IBKR
IBM
IEX
JNJ
KALU
KEY
KMI
MAN
MBFI
MS
MTB
MTG
NAVI
NCR
NUE
PACW
PBCT
PFPT
PNFP
POOL
RNST
SBNY
SCHW
SCSS
SEIC
SFBS
SKX
SLG
SNV
SON
SONC
STI
STLD
SXT
SYNT
TACO
TCF
TSM
TTS
TXT
UBSH
UFPI
UMPQ
UNH
USB
VMI
WAFD
WAL
WBS
WERN
WTFC
WWW
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